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Would you or knot


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I would  

36 members have voted

  1. 1. I would

    • I'd never say anything, they cocked up so their problem.
      6
    • I wouldn't say anything until I knew the other boat couldn't recover in time to beat me over the line or around the mark.
      9
    • Never been there but don't think I would say anything.
      3
    • I really don't know and will have to wait until it happens to find out.
      2
    • Never been there but probably would say something.
      4
    • I would tell some boats but knot others
      11
    • I'd tell every boat as that is the Sporting thing to do.
      2


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The scenario -

 

Pile of boats racing hard in very very close 1/4's. Been tooing and froing all the way around the track, tight as racing. Coming up to the finish line and there are a few boats right in the money to cross the line 1st, in that bunch or overall, it doesn't really mater in this hypothetical situation. The boats are all exceptionally close and it's going to be one of those finishes that is down to inches rather than boat lengths.

 

For this hypothetical situation we'll say there is a big launch parked as finish boat, the line being to a landmark ashore. By that big launch is parked a couple of others similar looking. All hanging in a way which didn't highlight any flags at all well (if they had actually been looked for or knot).

 

One boat makes the move and dives for the line but doesn't realise it's the wrong mark boat and it's actually heading to one 200mts on the course side of the finish line.

 

You are in one of the boats right on this dudes arse. You have been engaged in a hell bit of biffo in the race up to that point. Good fun biffo, knot Ernesto & Larry type nasty biffo.

 

You are easily within talking distance with the wayward boat. Do you tell that boat it's going the wrong way or knot? Bare in mind it could very very easily made the difference between one boat crossing before the other hence the results of the race and/or series.

 

What would you do? tick a option. No one can see who voted what so be honest to yourself. Don't vote think what you would like to happen, vote what you would do if the case arises.

 

More just wondering what the teams thought of the 'sportsmanship' aspect of either speaking up or just shutting up.

 

Now - that situation isn't actually that hypothetical as it happened on Sat. The 2 skippers involved did have a small chat about it afterwards, in a totally friendly no grudge beer in hand sort of a way. One was saying he felt it might knot have been that 'sporting' to say nothing and was in quite a personal quandary over it. The other skipper which very much of the same mindset and couldn't definitively say he would or wouldn't have but suspected he would have done exactly what the other one did. So as both think the same no grudges or grizzles held in any form what-so-ever.

 

I was just pondering the question on the way home, there was some spare time for the 1st hour or so. Are these 2 skippers being unsporting in knot speaking up or just good competitors in what is a race to beat the next dude over the line after all.

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Happened to us a year or so back, slight variation on the theme, being a boat obviously doing the wrong course.

 

We pondered and decided it was no fun beating them if they sailed the wrong course, besides they'd suffered penalty enough at that point. They did beat us.

 

Accepted if it was an event I was very serious about, you know, something you actually put serious amounts of training into or something ridiculous like that, then it's every bloke or blokette for himself.

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Some racing, I would say, is as much about the camaraderie and the shared experience as it is about the competition. I see short-handed racing in that way.

 

The phrase "the sporting thing to do" does not really sit well with me. But if I thought the guy had earned it other than the fact that he had got a bit of a "rush" on at the finish, I would do my best to let him know. Certainly over the years I have benefited from other crews letting me know that we were dragging a sheet, had a kite about to fly out of the bag, etc. I have even had other guys alongside suggest, either at the time or afterwards in the club, that the boat might go a bit faster if we trimmed it differently or shifted some crew weight. It's kind of in the spirit that lifting one boat's game improves the competition for everyone. Lord knows the weeks or fortnights in between races can get loooong.

 

I do agree that knowing the rules/course is part of the game but...winning in that way is just not the same.

 

I guess the test, like so many things in life, is how you will feel about your own character when you front up to the person at the post-match.

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Another possibly-relevant view is the principle that clearing an infringement on the water is healthier for the sport than those tortuous reconstructions (or two irreconciliably-different versions of events) in the protest room. Or threads on crew wondering why "someone" or the committee didn't protest.

 

If you subscribe to that principle, then the best thing you can do is let the infringing boat know as soon as possible so they can get themselves back in the race.

 

I accept that some could still argue the case that after they had crossed the real finish line and taken the gun was their earliest opportunity to hail the other boat.

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Exactly happened to us first race at BOI.

 

We headed to finish wrong side of finish boat, were just ahead of Taeping.

 

All their xmases came at once, soon as they finished we realised and finished correctly.

They didn't say a thing and I wouldn't have expected them to.

 

It was 100% my mistake and we lost a place as a result.

 

In a later race we noticed Sundreamer had missed a mark, but not by very much.

So we phoned them to tell them.

They never got our call but later Phill offered to withdraw.

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Depends how competitive you are i guess or how many rums you had on the way down there KM but its a bit like telling someone they have the wrong sail selection up for the conditions, starting at the wrong end of the line or even telling Bangladesh that there is not a run on there, get back in your crease before i run you out!! 46/6 if anyones interested

 

leave the chat for the beach

 

KM did you beat Mercenary down there??

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I would tell people I get on well with. There are some complete wankers I have raced against, who if i saw making a mistake like that, I'd laugh and laugh and it would make my day!

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Purely from a devil's advocate perspective - would telling the other skipper not be "outside assistance" - in your scenario there are a number of boats racing for the line, any one of which could win. By telling the wayward skipper, with communication not available to all competitors, you are depriving the others of a greater chance of victory.

 

I'd probably yell to the guy as well if he had not pissed me off in an earlier life...

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Similar scenario:

 

Optimist Racing, Open and Green Fleet on the same course, although Open and Green sail different number of legs. Leading Green Fleet sailor comes around his last mark surrounded by Open sailors & follows their general direction, a few other Opti Green sailors tail along behind but next boat around goes straight for the mark the Green Fleet is supposed to round before heading to the finish.

 

You are sitting in a RIB just off the mark - do you yell out to the leading 3 they are going the wrong way, or let them go off & lose their places because they did not memorise the course exactly.

 

'Cos if you did yell, then the kids can be disqualified - which is not too dissimilar to KM's scenario.

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Quite dissimilar in my book JK. Firstly the fact that you are in a RIB (official or spectator) rather than another competitor; secondly because they're kids that you may make a decision to teach a lesson they will remember for life, at the expense of them being temporarily demoralised.

 

I would also throw in the fact that they are sailing in boats with their intended number of crew, whereas the KM example is 30 and 40-footers with just one person on board. Heading for a big party on the beach.

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Until Saturday I probably would have picked option 1 but I was the "unsporting skipper" and I said nothing cause I really wanted to win. If it was another Bucks boat I would have said nothing (cause they should know the committee boat) but KM is an outsider so I should have been more hospitable. Actually as we crossed I didn't realise straight away why he had tacked but when I saw him crack off to pass the "other" committee boat (fishing) I still had a chance to yell out. I definitely felt a bit guilty after but he still beat me by 4 seconds so the right result happened.

KM was sporting enought to warn me of how much tide there was (he thought we had over-layed), actually it was that that made me twig that he was off to the "other" finish boat.

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Depends how competitive you are i guess or how many rums you had on the way down there KM
No rums, hard to pour and hold with all that tacking and goings on. But there was enough substance abuse going on it was lucky the wind filled and stayed in or I'd have been totally chopped come the end. I seem to sail better when I can't concentrate for long, no idea why.

 

Very competitive when I want or need to be. These days still very competitive but without the anal must win or die aspect that there was. Back then I sailed to win, nothing else mattered but these days it's all about the fun and enjoyment generally. Saturdays win was just a bonus, I would have still been just as delighted with the race had GC crossed first or even a 88.

.

.

.

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sorry, just had to pop out and wash my mouth out with soap after those last 4 words :lol:

 

But saying that last weekend I did deploy stage 1 of my long awaited 'tweaking' programme which seemed to work nicely and now onto stage 2. So maybe the 'must win' desire is still there but only in hibernation at the moment. When sailing on other peoples boats I'm there to win for them and will go hard out, I only play games when on and with my own boat.

 

KM did you beat Mercenary down there??

Yeap. Knot sure by how much but it wasn't close I think, it was one of those days. He was threatening to kick my arse on the way home but I suspect he got a tad too poisoned by coke or maybe the limes on the raft, they were hard at it for a long while after I bailed in the wee small hours, as were the P B Floyd team.

 

Grunta, The only reason I mentioned the tide to you was because I thought I had you well tucked away. If I had realised at the time I was diving deep in to a appointment with Mr Cock-up or you still had a shot at passing me before the line, I'm 99% sure I wouldn't have. You're a great competitor to sail against, don't change anything........unless it makes you slower ;)

 

But I must say a very hospitable comment re visitors to races of the mighty BBYC. That comment in itself shows you aren't a total bastard :lol:

But I'm still planning on being your total bastard by taking your crown for that race so one day Charlie Brown...... :wink:

 

Judging by the responses it appears one or 2 have had to have a think hard before posting. It's an interesting question I pondered myself at some length yesterday.

 

The 'outside assistance' comments raise an interesting angle I didn't think of. Is it indeed legal to warn someone of an impending but knot safety related cock-up approaching?

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Not really an issue for me, and has not often been an issue as mostly the other boats are far too far away to yell. I think at times we might have tried to tell Bob he was heading for the wrong mark, but I can't remember if we were using a cell or a radio.

 

I wondered about the outside assistance rule,

strictly speaking one is not supposed to make cell calls or texts... or receive them. But what about unsolicited yelling?

 

As JK mentioned, if you yell at the kids in the Opti's do they get disqualified?

 

For the case in point, you could always use the radio to be sure. But is yelling considered "communication not available to all competitors?" It's not necessarily private communication... it's just that half the competitors have hearing not good enough to hear you from the other end of the course... :wink:

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With green fleet Optis you are generally allowed to coach from a RIB. Not in Open fleet.. Usually it's in the NOR or sailing instructions. No fun being an Opti parent if you can't yell at your kid.... :lol: (Just kidding, mostly anyway).

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The SI's usually state that you can coach the back 25% of the fleet or so, not all of them. Which can open up some loose interpretations as you see the ones at the back coached right up to the front. Still, if they do not like it they can always move up to the Open Fleet. Then they are out for the day, don't come back for lunch, & you get some of your weekend back :D

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Looking at the voting it appears we mostly are reasonably sporting as long as it doesn't disadvantage us in a race.

 

I think that's pretty fair really as it is a race after all.

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Was once coming into the finish in 2nd place in a Jollyboat Nationals. Pommie bloke in front of me went outside the finish line and I won. I had no idea that that was his intention until he did it. He ripped into me on the beach for being a bad sport (which I'm not). So after I called him a whinging pom and he called me a racist (which we all are to some degree), I had to wonder what I would have done if I'd realised he was going the wrong way. Still can't decide, might be a bad sport after all. We got over it.

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I noticed in the Sailonline racing that among the list of people who had agreed to pick each other off the beach there were some who would only point you in the right direction after they had gone past.

There are a couple of black marks on my list to indicate the repeat offenders.

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The SI's usually state that you can coach the back 25% of the fleet or so, not all of them. Which can open up some loose interpretations as you see the ones at the back coached right up to the front. Still, if they do not like it they can always move up to the Open Fleet. Then they are out for the day, don't come back for lunch, & you get some of your weekend back :D

 

Sounds good to me!!

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Was once coming into the finish in 2nd place in a Jollyboat Nationals. Pommie bloke in front of me went outside the finish line and I won. I had no idea that that was his intention until he did it. He ripped into me on the beach for being a bad sport (which I'm not). So after I called him a whinging pom and he called me a racist (which we all are to some degree), I had to wonder what I would have done if I'd realised he was going the wrong way. Still can't decide, might be a bad sport after all. We got over it.

 

You now know what you would do. Tell everyone else but him...

:D

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