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Issues with YNZ


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#1 Guest_Ketchup_*

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Posted 16 September 2015 - 04:27 PM

It is worth noting here that the hub plans don't have any impact on the beach area, additionally the "mob" are not trying to keep the area and beach as a public asset, the camp ground site and Beach will always remain public assets, they are simply trying to keep a campground. A campground that is not considered within the Takapuna Beach Reserve Management Plan. The campground is not a public asset or freely accessible; it is a privately owned commercial business that has no lease or resource consent for buildings and that the public has to pay to access. If the Marine Hub was to go ahead as proposed, it would open more than 8000sqm of open green space and a fully accessible landscaped roof for the public to enjoy.

No, the statement regarding taxpayers dollars is not correct whatsoever.



With regards to Ketchup's comments. This link is to YNZ's Strategic Direction document, and as an organisation this is what we are working to, http://www.yachtingn...n_lores_fin.pdf. We spend a lot of time talking to clubs, both management and our regional staff are on the ground at events and at clubs, we are very open about discussing issues that people have with the sport or with what we are doing, there is also phone and email and we are happy for people to come and see us at our offices. To say that there are very few places to vent is simply not correct.

Andrew Clouston
Participation and Development Manager

With all respect Andrew (and I do not know how long you have been there, but suspect it is well less than 6 years) I have been there, got the T-shirt and read the book.

YNZ (and its local representatives) know the problems clubs face! They have known the issues for many years and they have not changed a lot.

What the real issue Is YNZ's lack of drive and commitment to resolving these matters.

They only commitment the "paid professionals", at YNZ have, is to throw the issues back at the "volunteers" / clubs organizing committees/hierarchy and say the problems/solutions are yours.

Where is the leadership from the "professional governing body", "the movers/shakers/influencers" and "holder of the financial purse strings"... namely YNZ, to drive the growth and sustainability of yacht clubs and sailing in NZ?

Where is the marketing philosophy/plan to drive young people into sailing nationwide?... if there is one then it is a failure by virtue of falling sailing numbers and reduced yacht club memberships.

Where is a support program For clubs, (especially outside of Auckland) that encompasses a fiscal/marketing plan That targets growth?

As Knot me has said... the emphasis appears to be in "Centres of extravagance" that aleinate the public away from the sport.

And i will add...a few cheap Volvos for the lads, and huge fiscal support for a few Olympic sailors and their support staff (who are all well off in their own right)

Answer me this Andrew...

How does a excellent sailor, with great ability, from out side of Auckland, and in a poor family, get to qualify for Olympic recognition if he/she cannot afford to campaign overseas? Let alone a trip to Auckland?....

How does such a sailor even get to challenge the current Olympic sailors if they cannot go overseas?...

And dont say - "go to the nationals"!... without overseas exposure these people will never develop thier best capabilities to challenge the current elite sailors and as such their talents will Never be realised.

And why would they even bother when the odds are so stacked against them!

Which is why most young sailors in move away from sailing! (Its to damn hard to get to the top! (Fiscally as well as the process/systems)

Finally, attitudes will change when YNZ is seen to be doing great things in promoting the sport at regional and club level and not at the elite/auckland end of the market.

yNZnid the governing body and ultimately responsible for the growth and sustainability of the sport. With current trends in the drop in sailing numbers, the demise of "national fleets, and the constant struggle of many yacht clubs, I would say that YNZ has dropped the ball and the past 10 years of change, promises, and expenditur, has seen no improvement in what should be its key objectives.

takapuna, elite sailing squads... are not priorities if the sport is dieing on the ground.


Numbers in equals number out... in other words promote to the "non elite" masses and the results and growth will happen.

For the record. I would rather comment here, for all to see, than through the "system" where nothing is "public" and issues can be swept away or ignored at a individual level (as has happened in the past.)

Thanks for reading.
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#2 Guest_Ketchup_*

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 02:11 PM

Yet you post 3 more times.

You have given YNZ everything that need not to come back and respond to any questions.

You are your own worst enemy and you are hurting Yachting.

Get real KM, that's emotional clap trap. How can I hurt NZ yachting any more that they have hurt themselves.

If I am that powerful and this thread that influential in the general landscape then Wow!!! Watch out.

yNZ have done immense harm over the years by doing nothing when things were on the slide, but at the same time wasting energy of projects of fancy that achieve nothing. tHEY DID THAT!... not me or you!

Remember the millions wasted By CEO Simon Wickham on taking Yachties to court over a Olympic selection cock up. And now this Takapuna embarrassment To name a few...


yNZ lurked on this site/page for hours last night and could nave posted..."we will get bact to you all soon"

But no! Its all gone quiet.

I am the last Person to blame for YNZ and NZ sailings issues/demise KM and you know why that is!?

Because I (and a few others) are the only ones to challenge them and the lack of progess they have made in maintain and growing the sport nationally. Meanwhile The rest of the fence sitters are happy to sit back and let it jst cruise along into a state of mediocrity ....

So point the finger at the 90% of complacent sailing people Who do and say nothing (they are probably the samee people who moan about politicians and never vote!) After all if you say nothing then you are all obviously happy with the way things are (in your declining fleets, declining clubs etc...)

kM YNZ's biggest fear is that large number will oppose them and do it publicly. If that happen they would have to front and make change. That means nard work and exposure! Therefore by being scared to speak out and challenge them they win and the plebs that say nothing become part of the problem.(in fact they are to blame by their lack of actions)

KM, I do n0t put You, Bannari, nor IT (by allowing this thread) into that category but to try and pin the blame for sailings'issues on me is a big cop out KM.

I am more passionate than anyone to see sailing prosper, locally and at world level, than anyone! Why else would I fight a long and hard battle like I nave dome over the years.

KM you know I talk it straight and there is no "poofter" spin or "talking around the topic"!

if it looks like sh*t it probably is"

Look at my 14 year crusade against the employment of Barker in the NZ AC team!... and as I predicted, back in the day, he was /is a failure and he neverr won.

Anyway we will see what happens..., but don,t hold your breath.
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#3 Knot Me... maybe

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 04:11 PM

Stop twisting my words. I'm more than capable of making a hash of them myself thank you.

 

The only issue I have with YNZ is the Taka beach thing, nothing more. And to be honest most of that isn't with YNZ as such as I still suspect they are only the happy clappy face on something else happening in the back ground.

 

My only issue with you is you don't know when to STFU!!. And I do have some expertise in that area hence I do feel I'm qualified to make that comment.

 

Pick one thing at a time fella. You have so much going on in your posts it can get a bit too much and that will be hard for anyone to respond to.

 

 


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#4 Guest_Ketchup_*

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 04:27 PM

Waiting YNZ... waiting...
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#5 YNZ

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 01:34 PM

Ketchup (for lack of you fronting up and putting your real name to your posts), you’ve had your say and stated your opinion (you are claiming a lot of things as fact, which is simply not the case).

I don’t intend to get into a back and forth, I’ll respond to some of your reasonable comments/statements and leave it at that.

 

You clearly have some very long running issues with YNZ, and I don’t intend to address those, but I can speak to what we are doing now.

 

Yachting New Zealand are driven and committed to improving and growing sailing in New Zealand, to accuse us otherwise is an insult to our staff busting their gut to make things better.

 

We work to our Strategic Direction which can be found here: http://www.yachtingn..._lores_fin.pdf 

 

A key to this is to help clubs build their capability, this is the work of my team, including our Regional Support Officers working in the region (who are all unquestionably 100% committed to helping grassroots sailing).

 

Clubs (and sailing schools) are most people’s introduction to the sport and many people keep participating via clubs. It is in the sport’s best interest to ensure we have strong clubs. Strong clubs with:

·         capable people in administrative roles

·         who have the resources and support they need

·         good programmes that meet the needs of their members

·         supported by good coaching where applicable

·         capable race management

·         offering people something to keep them engaged, whether it be the right kind of racing, or for those non racing oriented, a place to sail with likeminded people.

 

Our role is to help those clubs achieve this by doing the following:

·         Guidance and support at an administrative and strategic level

·         Support to ensure programmes are effective and appropriate

·         Support for fundraising

·         Providing resources for the club

·         Promoting and maintaining national sail training programmes and resources

·         Training coaches

·         Training race officials

·         Providing resources for coaches

·         Providing resources for officials

·         Promoting a performance pathway, giving guidance for aspiring Youth Worlds and Olympic sailors. I know the Olympics aren’t for everyone, however for many of our young sailors, this is what they aspire to and YNZ plays a role in helping them get there.

·         Environmental advocacy, ensuring access to navigable waters and anchorages is protected for all boaties – So clubs can continue to have a home, and boaties have places to go

·         Regulatory advocacy, ensuring that national legislation (licensing, registration, alcohol limits for skippers), harbour bylaws (compulsory lifejacket wearing), etc. do not create barriers for participation for boaties – Keeping down costs, keeping down paperwork, promoting skipper responsibility and sensible laws as opposed to over regulation

 

You will recognise a lot of this is equally applicable to non-racing sailors, skill development, advocacy, good clubs people enjoy being part of, information, etc.

 

All of this is nationwide, not Auckland specific.

 

We are continuing to try and improve our communication with clubs and participants, both club members, and boaties not affiliated with a club.

 

We are also trying to improve the amount of exposure the sport gets, recent initiatives include the Volvo Sailing and Boating Week and the Dinghy Expo and other boat shows we have been a part of. There is no one answer in this space and we need to keep making the most of opportunities to promote the sport. Keep bashing away at it, so to speak: web based promotion, TV (where budget allows), events, social media, linking in with other sailing media, print. Yes, there is a plan that sits behind that.

 

We are always looking at where we can do better, where there are opportunities to improve and asking ourselves if we are on the right track.  

 

I have recently been doing some work around our upcoming participation and development strategic review. Sport New Zealand has been promoting an ‘Athlete Centred’ approach to sport development. “Athlete” meaning a participant rather than just someone racing (in our terms), i.e. cruising sailors, recreational sailing. This prompted a lot of thinking around what we do for participants either directly, or through clubs and supporting them to be effective.

 

Rather than sharing the whole mind map, here are some of the headings to give you an idea of what we consider a participant might need:

·         Access to information, resources and support (sailors, parents, coaches, volunteers, officials)

·         Access to good programmes

·         Access to good facilities and equipment (clubs)

·         Access to the water (advocacy)

·         Appropriate safety regulations (advocacy for appropriate rules, also the YNZ Safety Regs)

·         Access to support from volunteers

·         Access to good coaching

·         Access to good competition and well run events

·         Access to guidance around high performance (talent development)

Within those headings there are a lot of things we already do, but ideas of what we can and will do.

 

We also continue to develop a better understanding of what clubs and members need.

 

Club membership and participation in sport is dropping across all sport. There are a variety of reasons, cost, people are more time poor, more options, electronic alternatives, cultural shifts to name a few. Yachting has actually remained static over the last few years and we are not throwing in the towel or accepting that numbers will drop. We recognise these issues and part of our role is to help the sport grow in this new age with new challenges. It’s not the 1970’s anymore.

 

The Olympic and High Performance programme is not my area of expertise. No funding from club fees goes into this area. It is funded by High Performance Sport New Zealand. I can’t speak on behalf of the programme.

 

You are being facetious in your questions and statements on the topic or poor, out of Auckland sailors making it to the Olympics, but I’ll wade in a little here.

 

All of our Olympic squad sailors compete in New Zealand; nationals, Sail Auckland, etc. If someone was an “excellent” sailor they have an opportunity to put themselves against the best in the country (and other international sailors that travel here).

 

You also have no knowledge of these sailor's financial circumstances, so cannot make assumptions that they all have loads of money and come from privileged backgrounds.

 

Cost is a factor in our sport, as it is most sports. Travel is a factor in sport for those eying up the Olympic dream. Those that want to reach the top in any sport have to make a financial commitment – there are always avenues for assistance, fundraising, trust funding, scholarships, YNZ support (once they reach a certain level).

 

A sailor that cannot afford a trip to Wellington for a regatta is no different to a Rugby player who cannot afford to get to Wellington for a tournament. You cannot level blame at YNZ for not making events more accessible.

 

National events move around the country, sailors that display talent are picked up on the radar (even from Optimist age). There is a pathway for a young sailor that shows promise and has ambitions of reaching the top level, and support to go with it.

 

I feel that answers most of your issues. As I said at the beginning, I won’t be entering into a time consuming back and forth.

 

Andrew Clouston


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#6 Guest_Ketchup_*

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 04:24 PM

Well that's a cop out based on "standarad protocol", rhetoric, and just a bullshit bunch of "policy statements" that do not really answer my questions.

Eg . So how do local sailors (who cannot dford to travelling overseas) qualify for the Olympic squad? Without challenging the incumbamts at a Olympic trial?

Also you presume I do not know he current Olympic squads memeber financial status. That's a guess/assumption at best. Nice spin but just emotion talking.

Finnaly to start and end your"statement" with the "basically I will not engage in any further conversation (or words to that effect)" smacks of a person with something to hide or the inability to be challenged on individual issues.

Isn't it your job to engage with the sailing fraternity? Or is it just to put your story out there?

I would like to debate with you "line bY line" and drill down into specifics. (And don't use the I am busy working spin!... So am I!)

Sorry Andrew. this a continuation of the "close minded" nature of YNZ and their inability to be challenged externally and to engage in real dialouge/feedback, understand the issues and be open to change.

Anyway, since you will not engage, good luck with you program and we will se where you and YNZ are in 2/3 Years.

As a payed employee and a servent to the sport... you will be judged.
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#7 Guest_Ketchup_*

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 04:28 PM

Furthermore Andrew, you have not answered Bannari's very pertinent questions in the Takaouna Beach thread.
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#8 Rehabilitated

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Posted 26 September 2015 - 11:11 AM

Quote

YNZ AIMS statement. ADMIRABLE. HOWEVER NOT BEING PIN PRICKING

PLEASE CLARIFY


"We also continue to develop a better understanding of what clubs and members need.



"Our role is to help those clubs achieve this by doing the following:

· Guidance and support at an administrative and strategic level

· Support to ensure programmes are effective and appropriate

· Support for fundraising

· Providing resources for the club

· Promoting and maintaining national sail training programmes and resources

· Training coaches

· Training race officials

· Providing resources for coaches

· Providing resources for officials

· Promoting a performance pathway, giving guidance for aspiring Youth Worlds and Olympic sailors. I know the Olympics aren’t for everyone, however for many of our young sailors, this is what they aspire to and YNZ PLAYS A ROLE IN HELPING THEM GET THERE." Non quote [ YNZ TO DO THIS WHERE DO THE FUNDS COME FROM IF YACHT CLUB FEES 100% ARE NOT USED ]

"Environmental advocacy, ensuring access to navigable waters and anchorages is protected for all boaties – So clubs can continue to have a home, and boaties have places to go.

You will recognise a lot of this is equally applicable to non-racing sailors, skill development, advocacy, good clubs people enjoy being part of, information, etc."


How are the above statements compatible with a further statement further on
Do not like that ETC word as it is not specific. No offence intended.

Quote

"The Olympic and High Performance programme is not my area of expertise. No funding from club fees goes into this area. It is funded by High Performance Sport New Zealand. I can’t speak on behalf of the programme."

NON Quote QUESTIONS?

The yacht squadron has the youth training programme so do all the other main center clubs or should have. So what you are proposing is it not a duplication of existing programmes.



Organisations such as ICA have seminars and traing programmes for the cruising yachtsman. Does YNZ give them financial assistance?

HERE IS A GOOD IDEA FOR YACHTING NZ


http://crew.org.nz/f...ls/#entry156634

So how will the TAKAPUNA THING PROVIDE ADDITIONAL BENEFITS TO ALL NZ SAILORS EQUALLY.

I look forward to your reply and explanations.
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#9 Nzgrant

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Posted 26 September 2015 - 12:14 PM

Does ynz do anything outside of auckland ?
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#10 Guest_Ketchup_*

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Posted 26 September 2015 - 04:39 PM

They have so call area representatives that basically do bugger all and just talk the YNZ corporate (as YNZ has done in other threads here) "spin" , and fly under the "real issues radar"

Never do you see open dialogue where the individual and collective clubs issues are discussed, analized, prioritized, actioned ( "solution based" rectification is planned) and implememted.

Mind you most Yacht clubs are so fed up with YNZ that they see them as an impediment to growth and a Corporation dedicated to Auckland, corporate sponsors, a few Olympians, and maintainimg government funding to fund the Wages they really do not deserve.... or in plain English... They have given up waiting for the sports GOVERNING BODY" to actually Govern!

Even in this YNZ forum you see a classic example of a paid YNZ spin doctor throwing out cheap rhetoric and then closing down the issues with emotional claptrap and refusing to debate them !

This is another example of YNZ showing blatant disregard for the sport. The Takapuna debarcle just shows where their priorities are. The sports growth is dropping, many classes are dieng on the vine, many clubs are fiscally struggling, and what do YNZ focus on.... A furken elite structure for a few Auckland/ north shore sailors while alienating the local public / rest of the nz sailing communities (whose support they desperately need).

This current mob, typically, take the easy route, in order to say " they are doing something" but deep down they and we know it will be a white elephant supported by a few loCal's.

Basically the fix that NZ sailing needs nationally is to hard! These guys want to tick some easy boxes to justify their income and position!... remember they will not be there in 5 years.... just like the last lot that did bugger all!
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