Jump to content


Photo

Epoxying my ferro hull

ferro epoxy

  • Please log in to reply
78 replies to this topic

#71 Seasick sheamus

Seasick sheamus

    Advanced Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 89 posts
  • LocationEssex..UK

Posted 02 January 2016 - 08:32 AM

Here's my logic... Next to me is a guy who bought a Moody 44 grp yacht. He paid £120,000 and £700 for a survey. Then he had to pay £3500 to have the nuts on the keel bolts replaced - they were intentionally made of mild steel because as the bolts were steel they did not want to use SS. In a years time he will have to replace his SS rigging at a cost of at least £6000. So before he's even thought about raising his main sail he has paid out...around £130,000! When I put my footpath in the water in July pretty much finished I will have spent max £12,000... Now when he comes to sell it in five years time it will have depreciated...let's say 10 per cent - is that fair? £13,000 plus all the other money he will spend on sat phones, wind generators etc.. Mine on the other hand will appreciate to max £20,000 as I complete it. Even if mine does not appreciate at all and our running costs are equal he has made a significant loss and I have broke even.
And that's without my subjective belief that my sailing experience will be more comfortable and my genuine belief that my boat is better.
He will also pay £500 - £600 out on insurance per year. But in the event of a claim who is to say they will pay out? A freind of mine recently lost his mast and the company just refused to pay out. If they do pay out they will pay him out maybe 60/70 per cent what he wants - if he's lucky losing £30 - 40,000. If my boat sinks I'll lose £13,000. Upsetting yes.. But not earth shattering.
Discuss...lol!!!!
  • 0

thy way is in the sea, and thy path in the great waters


#72 Maté

Maté

    Sailor

  • Marine Forums Only
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,723 posts

Posted 02 January 2016 - 09:30 AM

Its all about what you want and can afford. I don't think many people decide on a ferro purely on a performance basis, i.e sailing ability, durability, looks etc, I think most buy a ferro because they are cheap.  I presume since you're doing a lot of the work yourself you are not a chequebook yachtie that tosses the keys to the boatyard and comes back when the work is done, so you are probably looking for value on a limited budget. Thats where ferro rules especially in bigger boats, where else can you get a 53 foot boat for the price of a paintjob!

 

Ferros often don't sail as well as a glass boat of similar weight and size, simply for the fact that the weight is distributed through the hull and decks (if ferro) and less in the ballast keel, and they are often finished to work boat standard or rougher. The guy who pays 130k gets to sail a Moody 44 that looks good, sails well and is finished to yacht standard, so to him dropping 50k on ownership is worth it for the intangibles that boat offers. When it comes to price it all comes down to how you justify it, 130k might be a drop in the bucket 12k might be a fortune, paying a builder 10k to do  job might be cheap if you can earn 20k in the same time doing your own job.

 

I think its a mistake to get tribal over different construction methods, each material has benefits and weaknesses. I like wood but it rots, more and more I think a well built solid GRP hull is probably the most all round low maintenance durable material for a yacht but well built long lived boats can be found in many materials if the builder and designer knew what they were doing and the owner looked after the boat properly


  • 1

#73 wheels

wheels

    Advanced Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 16,818 posts

Posted 02 January 2016 - 12:29 PM

By the way, I am not arguing any points mentioned, this is just my side of the story from my experience.

For us, it wasn't a matter of price.  Price ended up allowing us to own such a big boat much sooner, but we never considered price at first. The important factors for me, were durability/strength and sea worthiness. We talked to many who owned FC and why. We considered one that had sailed right through the Queens Birthday storm and didn't know a drama was unfolding around them till they reached the Islands. I talked to guys with knowledge in building them and repairing them and then, we were introduced to the boat that we fell in love with.
Speed? well actually, we used to sail side by side with a Lotus 10.7. They would pull away in air under 8kts. But that is about us not having big light air sails. Our Headsail only comes back to the mast (is that code 1 or code 2??) At 16kts, she has legs. I have had hull speed of 9kts with 27kts of wind on our aft and just the headsail. She easily achieves that with everything up in just 16kts. So slow? well OK she doesn't accelerate like KM's 930, but she is a cruiser and as such, can be fully loaded with everything needed for an ocean passage and still sails just the same.

The only time performance drops is under motor punching into a head steep seaway. The broad bow slams in and slows the boat down. But that is due to the prop not being huge because it is a sailboat, not a launch.
We sailed to GBI a couple of days ago and with headsail and main up, we had 5kts pushing into the wind of 12 to 16kts at 30 to 40deg. 30 is  bit tight, but just do able. Let her out to 60 and we had 7kts, but we couldn't point to our waypoint at that, so had to settle for a lot slower and a bit ruffer motion.
When it comes to designs, you do have to look at what was being built when FC was builds were common. The ease of GRP has lead to modern designs today that were not really considered back then, but also in saying that, technology was not the same back then either and that has also lead to some major changes in design today. If FC was still considered a player today, I think we would see some very similar and interesting designs.
Oh and as for strength, we hit a rock many years ago now, at 7.5kts. We hauled the boat to find a little concrete missing off the keel, back to the mesh. Plastered it and went back in the water. We hit so hard, that GRP, Timber and I suspect Aluminium would be in serious trouble. Steel may have survived but probably a major dent and a big repair. It was a horrible impact and I am surprised the rig stayed up.


  • 0

#74 Seasick sheamus

Seasick sheamus

    Advanced Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 89 posts
  • LocationEssex..UK

Posted 03 January 2016 - 10:19 PM

I am arguing for ferro.....but I can't argue with the statement that a well built boat is a well built boat whatever the material - that a guy can row the indian ocean solo in a plywood 20 footer (i think) proves that.

GRP is without doubt a fantastic material. The millions of boats and yachts built in it is testament to that! The only reservations I would have is the light fabrication of modern yachts and the cost of repair (and to some extent the complexity). When I say complexity I mean matching the gel coat .....that is a skilled and difficult undertaking????? Ferro doesn't have that issue.

I also accept that if someone wants to spend £150,000 on a yacht good luck to them. But the central issue of value for money still remains. If I am at anchor in Jamaica next to my mate in his moody 44 and it's cost me £20,000 then surely that represents better value for money? It also leaves the money I would have spent on a GRP yacht in the bank to pay for my lazy life style?

 

Having said all that if someone gave me an Emmel super maramu (Circa 1980)...I would be a happy bunny!!!!  

 

To prove I love GRP....here is a short vid that my friend took of me sailing a 23fy GRP yacht called crystal wake a couple of years ago!!!! We got caught out in some lumpy weather and she sailed beautifully with just the storm jib out!!!

 


  • 0

thy way is in the sea, and thy path in the great waters


#75 Guest_Ketchup_*

Guest_Ketchup_*
  • Guests

Posted 25 January 2016 - 06:09 PM

Thanks Ketchup.
It's a pity the guy sends himself on so many "Holidays" because he has a lot to offer the Forum. I must say, I do have a soft spot for the guy. Unlike some other regurgitated form of a member we all seem to end up in "robust discussion" with. ;-)

Thanks wheels! And I dont go on holidays! I just put up some strong comments and the " left wing PC brigade" get all defensive then complaint to IT, then he sends me on a holiday.

Mind you i cannot complain! The holiday away from the PC brigade, headed by BP and motorbike, is f**king luxury.

BPs beliefs and opinions are mainly influenced by someone else and motorbike is Sue Bradford in drag.

Hopefully that's enough for a good holiday.

Gotta say this site is a bit boring and basically just white noise from about 17.5 people...And a bit of humour and knowledge from knotty and you respectively

God if Knotty and yourself were not here this site would be in a box six foot under.

Most of it is dribble that means nothing and results bin nothing, then there are about half the topics that have not been posted on in over 6 months. Not a good look for the you no what

Anyway this is my final post as I am off sailing holiday forsix months starting from the Med in April.

Bye bye ☺..

Ban away
  • 0

#76 Guest_Ketchup_*

Guest_Ketchup_*
  • Guests

Posted 25 January 2016 - 06:22 PM

Oh and injoy the sounds and all that serenity!... As opposed to the Auckland rush hour on the water every weekend
  • 0

#77 wheels

wheels

    Advanced Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 16,818 posts

Posted 25 January 2016 - 08:17 PM

The Med. Wow. Have a great time.


  • 0

#78 Island Time

Island Time

    Advanced Member

  • Administrators
  • 7,082 posts
  • LocationHome from Cruising, Now Gulf Harbour

Posted 25 January 2016 - 10:38 PM

Hope you have a good and safe trip Ketchup. And time to chill out and forget those negative feelings about what a crap site this is.
  • 0

There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worth doing, as simply messing about in boats


#79 idlerboat

idlerboat

    Advanced Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,710 posts
  • LocationVictoria, Australia

Posted 13 February 2016 - 11:23 PM

Oh wot fun...

For what its worth I owned a ferro for more years than I wish to remember..(thats my age, not that the boat had a problem)...and now have lived on my steel boat for nearly as many...

Hard point impact failure (as described by wheels) is the only problem I have ever had with ferro (footpath), which is why I now reside in a steel vessel (sardine can)..

I find it a "knee slappin belly laff " when people who sail in cellulose....worry about our poor choice of building materials...(and I commercially skipper a timber boat built at the highest end)...

as to fibre glass ?...its got no class...

....

Copper coat (the epoxy copper "long life" antifoul), is a bastard when it gets a bit old...not a lot sticks to it and its very hard to get off....

Dont go there...its much easier and cheaper to go for an average ablative antifoul.

You should haul your vessel every two years anyway so what do you gain ?

 

Given that a lot of my time is spent taking poisonous paint off and then putting it back on again..

You may want to dig out one of my ancient posts  on how I still do it...

From the vast variety of brands and types that I have used and surveyed....

Hempel  (the cheap one) comes in as the best value ...

Altex number 5 as the best lasting..

Jotun super tropic was good but is being discontinued..

International micron extra is fine but usually to pricey..

 

I care so much about all this that my hull is spotless each time I haul....

...maybee its because I use up the leftovers of what ever I have... :wave:

and even worse....I mix them....

What is far more important to good antifouling is to put a proper amount on.

At least two solid coats and twice as much on all your leading and trailing edges.

(as well as that bit on the hull just above the prop)

DONT dry sand the old stuff off...(you do read the labels dont you ?)

Hand wet and dry with 60 grit (wet) Just enough to clean and key the surface. Below that is still good antifoul...(its not cheese...it dosnt go off over time)...

If you are going through to hull paint then stop....coat with an ally barrier coat like vinyguard or similar.

 

 

But then I still protect my prop with lanolin....and after close to a 1000 hrs on the engine the prop is immaculate...

:wave: to the grumpy chemist..

 

Im just about to do the east coast of oz (for the fourth time in 18 months ....) and then off to play in the sth pacific for a year...I will let you know if my boat sinks due to antifoul induced calamity....


  • 0
There is only two substances..stuff and glue...and even glue is made of stuff,,
quote."MD"





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: ferro, epoxy

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users