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#1251 erice

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 09:15 AM

not sure but think the turn back situation is complicated

 

a bit like the issue aust. has with boat people

 

ie

 

the mexicans turn a blind eye to a non-documented family travelling from honduras to the usa

 

a usa border patrol finds them just after they have crossed the reo grande

 

they can't really force them to swim back, and even if they did, the migrants would just wait a bit and swim to the usa again

 

so the patrol cuffs them and takes them to a processing centre, for; food, water, beds, baths, asylum claims

 

this is where the separations have started happening due to a tougher "rules based" system charging the adults with border violation......

 

the patrol can't really take them and dump them at a mexican border crossing as they aren't mexican and have no documents.....(remember the jungle camp in calais)  

 

the usa could fly them back to honduras, if the migrants admitted that was where they were from, and they agreed to go voluntarily.......otherwise cuff them with border guards andflyp them where?....naru? 

 

this is why a wall looks so appealing to trump 

 

much the same issue in europe now

 

should a country be allowed to control its borders?

 

should a country be allowed to control its immigration?

 

tiny illegal migration flows have traditionally been managed in an "individually expensive" way

 

mass flows can not as they provoke a democratic kick-back from the bottom rank of voters who expect their gov. to spend on them, not people wanting their jobs and benefits

 

(game theory)

 

just look at the anti-immigrant situation here against well-behaving, well-educated, well-motivated young asians who contribute more to the tax system than they take

 

if we had land borders with papua new guinea? and huge illegal immigration from there

 

the nz public would be screaming blue murder


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#1252 Black Panther

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 09:28 AM

The very best solution would be to help improve conditions in Honduras. Since the gang wars there are about controlling the drug trade into the U.S. this could be done by getting the U.S. to stop consuming said drugs. Or by making said drugs legal.
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#1253 erice

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 09:36 AM

so the usa should fix central america?

 

the uk should fix africa?

 

europe should fix the middle east?

 

actually they are all doing what they can to fix those countries

 

like nz is doing what it can to fix its growing underclass

 

but just sending money doesn't work

 

money + expertises isn't working either

 

we're all looking for the answers

 

but none have been found yet

 

hence the problem remains


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#1254 Knot Me... maybe

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 01:43 PM

Sitting in the hospital listening to the radio and they had a chat to a law dude.

 

The law being used was started being discussed in the 80's and signed into law in 97 by Clinton.

Obama used the same law to split families exactly as Trump has. Bush wanted to but ...... I got called into xray.

 

Whoever it was that suggested the media and others aren't against Trump and not holding him to a considerably far higher level than any previous Presidents, needs to reassess their position or more correctly ask themselves what they are trying to achieve or hide from with their obvious double standards.


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#1255 Black Panther

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 04:57 PM

Alternatively you are wrong. The media is merely reporting what he does. But he is a nasty vile misogynistic narcissistic sociopath being accurately portrayed.
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#1256 wheels

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 05:29 PM

the mexicans turn a blind eye to a non-documented family travelling from honduras to the usa

 

a usa border patrol finds them just after they have crossed the reo grande

 

they can't really force them to swim back, and even if they did, the migrants would just wait a bit and swim to the usa again

 

No this is not an illegal boarder crossing issue erice. Infact, the illegal crossings of the boarder have been steadily dropping. These Families have tried entering via the proper points of entry and applying for assylum.
 

 

The law being used was started being discussed in the 80's and signed into law in 97 by Clinton.

Obama used the same law to split families exactly as Trump has. Bush wanted to but ...... I got called into xray.

Not quite right KM. The document was written, but not passed into law. The leaders all thought it far to tough.
 


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#1257 erice

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 06:37 PM

the news last night showed a family from honduras picked up by a texas border guard walking along a dirt track

 

they would have been split up under trump's interpretation

 

but we were told they wouldn't be by this guard in texas

 

the majority seem to be economic migrants

 

at least when asked by reporters they say they "want a better future"

 

not that they are fleeing death squads

 

​afaik

 

there is no asylum category for economic migrants 


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#1258 Nzgrant

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 07:07 PM

Isnt it easy for us in good old nz, without any land borders,  to criticise other nations trying to stop illegal immigrants.

 

Also a realty check with the whole splitting families up thing.  Isnt this exactly what we do with our overstayers/deportees.  Don't we jail the adults and take the kids away somewhere else. Perhaps you lefties who hate so much need to have a think about good old godzone under the reds,  we aint lily white people.


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#1259 Priscilla II

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 07:35 PM

Isnt it easy for us in good old nz, without any land borders,  to criticise other nations trying to stop illegal immigrants.
 
Also a realty check with the whole splitting families up thing.  Isnt this exactly what we do with our overstayers/deportees.  Don't we jail the adults and take the kids away somewhere else. Perhaps you lefties who hate so much need to have a think about good old godzone under the reds,  we aint lily white people.

LEFTIES STEALING KIDS REDS RUNNING THE COUNTRY WTF ARE YOU SMOKING.
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#1260 Fish

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 08:51 PM

Sitting in the hospital listening to the radio and they had a chat to a law dude.

 

The law being used was started being discussed in the 80's and signed into law in 97 by Clinton.

Obama used the same law to split families exactly as Trump has. Bush wanted to but ...... I got called into xray.

 

Whoever it was that suggested the media and others aren't against Trump and not holding him to a considerably far higher level than any previous Presidents, needs to reassess their position or more correctly ask themselves what they are trying to achieve or hide from with their obvious double standards.

Trump issued the directive for "zero tolerance" in mid May 2018. No other President did that.

I think the "law" you are reffereing to is the one that says children can't accompany parents in prison. Very recently, Trump gave the directive to charge anyone entering the country with a criminal offence, i.e. to charge anyone entering without a visa as a criminal. As they are held in custody, the other law says they can't have kids with them, so Trump creates a situation where an "existing" law is used to steal babies.

 

General negotiating tactic of Trump is to create a major crisis, get everyone wailing and nashing at teeth, then settle for what you wanted in the first place. Trump wants a wall. He needed to create a crisis around immigration to get his wall through Congress. Only thing is most reasonable people have an issue with stealing babies, including Trumps missus.

So this one blew up in his face.

 

I can't actually be bothered reading the dribble on here to understand who is saying what, but are people actually defending baby stealing? or just defending Trump's right to steal babies?

 

And who is the dick head that said the Labour govt is doing it? Trump has removed 2,334 children since the 16th May 2018. How many children have been separated from the parents by Immigration NZ in the last month? That is beyond fake news, looks like outright lying bullshit to me.


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