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Cheap Bene, needs (major) work


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This is a 23 year old "cheap European production boat".

 

The NZ market is awash with a wide range of new "cheap European production boats", that can be purchased with a five year warranty and no immediate maintenance requirements for comparatively very low prices. This is also pushing down the price of quality older NZ built boats substantially.

 

A section of this market is designed to a price, not to a quality. These are not NZ designed and built boats. I have no problem with that, the thought of getting a 3 bedroom 2 bathroom floating bach with a five year warranty and no maintenance is very attractive. The catch with these "cheap European production boats" is the design life.

 

Depending on the use, I would have thought any sort of regular use in NZ coastal conditions and these boats would have a max design life of 20 years, with hard use maybe only 10 years. At 23 years this one is done.

 

What is the expected life on a new lightweight engine these days? 20 years and you would be lucky. Sails stuffed ages ago, swabs and most interior fittings would be tired as. Most boats would need a substantial refit in the 20-30 year timeframe, standing and running rigging etc. With these boats I believe they allow for that, and only design the hull to last the same time as everything else. i.e. its stuffed. The value is just in scrap, being the keel, and that is probably iron and not lead anyway... built to a price.

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I've been through this boat with the assessors and engineer prior to it being written off.

 

note; typically they are written off when the repair bill exceeds 75% of the insured value.

 

I was asked to submit a quote but declined, as there is only so much that could be quoted on, then there is the what if when you open it up.

 

if anyone seriously wants my opinion you can get hold of me through the moderator

 

I don't think my opinion should be a public,  as the loss adjusters have been very clear in the trade me add 

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 Deck/ hull joint delaminations on 10 year old boats, those shitty metal through hulls endemic through the import fleet, and major structural deficiencies like this....Time bomb.

Design life,

a very short design life is definitely a time bomb when combined with punters that have no knowledge of such things.

For the price, 10 years hard use is probably reasonable value for money on some of these boats. I suspect the average punter doesn't even think of or understand that though. While you understand hull deck joints and metal through hulls, most punters are only interested in upholstery colour options and how big the swim platform is.

I've seen it at boat shows, sometimes the sales guys talk about the construction, normally in some non-standard trade name jargon (I still don't know what e-glass is, isn't it just fibreglass?, i.e. GRP). Most people want to know about colour options and how many bedrooms etc. This is in the context of inexperienced buyers / sailors etc.

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Yes E glass is just electrical fibreglass because thats where it was designed for , that industry.

(IF I recall my history correctly. )

 

 I agree about the design life , some of the euro boats are more of a commodity , use it up..

 

 Buy New Zealand built boats! if only so I can wake up in the morning not having lost a few k  overnight. :roll:

Not that I'd change anyway, I like my hollowed out kauri log, adze marks and all.

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Yes E glass is just electrical fibreglass because thats where it was designed for , that industry.

(IF I recall my history correctly. )

Yes it was, but now it's not so simple.

 E-glass, is the most common used in GRP. It's made of Alumino silicate and low alkali oxides. The E once stood for electrical, but now it is a classification for this particular chemistry.

Electrical is designated E-CR-glass which is Electrical/Chemical Resistance and also acid resistant. Made of Alumino-lime silicate, with less than 1% w/w alkali oxides.

A-glass = (Alkali-lime glass with little or no boron oxide)

C-glass = (alkali-lime glass with high boron oxide content. Used for glass staple fibers and insulation.

 

D-glass = Borosilicate glass, named for its low Dielectric constant.

 

R-glass = Alumino silicate glass without Magnesium Oxide and Calcium Oxide for high mechanical Reinforcment requirements.

S-glass = Alumino silicate glass. High Magnesium Oxiude. no Calcium Oxide. It has high tensile Strength.

T-glass  = Thermal insulator" – a North American version of C-glass

There are other complexities as well.

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Funny thing... American boats, in my experience, are fairly well built. Australian ones too. Euro ones, a much more mixed bag... Cars, however... Quite a different story!. Obviously no Kiwi made cars so they don't really fit into my equation here. 

 

There are plenty of kiwi built Ferro's which are exeptionally poor - although there are probably far more ferro's out there than many realize. Its just you don't notice the good ones. 

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It's not all Euro boats though, there are plenty of good ones.  You really can't compare a mass produced boat with a short production kiwi boat though.  Having recently been in the market I did see some kiwi 80's and 90's boats that were poorly built in areas also or at least had major issues with how they were built which limited ability to maintain them.  Also poorly repaired ones.  

 

There are some well built Bendy boats around built in the 80's and 90's before mass production that are pretty good and well built.  

 

How many boats

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remember Cheeki Rafiki 

 

the 40' bene that lost its keel crossing the atlantic with a young delivery crew

 

they got out a mayday and the upturned boat was found but not the 4 crew

 

CheekiRafiki_Fig19_Pg53.jpg

 

the accident report pdf should be read by anyone thinking of buying or repairing a bene with debonded matrix - liner

 

http://www.sailing.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/MAIBInvReport_8_2015.pdf

 

a combined effect of previous groundings and subsequent repairs to its keel and matrix had possibly weakened the vessel’s structure where the keel was attached to the hull.

 

During the course of the investigation, the MAIB received much anecdotal evidence regarding matrix detachments on Beneteau First 40.7 yachts. Areas notable for detachment were in the forward sections of the matrix, commonly attributed to the vessel slamming, and the area around and aft of where the keel is attached to the hull, commonly attributed to the vessel grounding. MAIB inspectors visited four Beneteau First 40.7 yachts that had all suffered detachments of their matrix in bays around the aft end of the keel as a result of grounding. Additionally, two of these vessels had suffered, or were showing signs of, matrix detachment in the forward section. One further Beneteau First 40.7 yacht was visited, which showed signs of matrix detachment in the forward and aft sections.

 

All of the repairers agreed that it was very difficult to identify areas and the extent of matrix detachment, particularly in the vicinity of the keel owing to the clamping effect of the keel bolts and washer plates. However, the single most agreed method for detecting matrix detachment was the use of a hammer to tap on the matrix and to listen for changes of tone. Two of the repairers suggested a further method of landing yachts ‘lightly’ on their keels, and watching for deflection of the hull.

 

Matrix detachment had previously occurred in Cheeki Rafiki, probably in bays immediately either side of the bays where the keel was bolted to the hull. It is therefore possible that detachment had also occurred in way of the keel

 

https://sailinganarchy.com/2014/06/08/average-white-boat/

 

In my opinion, anyone who has a production boat with a solid polyester GRP hull with a structural hull liner must (at some time and commensurate with boat use) give very serious consideration to addressing laminate and grid connection fatigue.

 

This is simply about having a maintenance/refit program matched to original design and vessel use, both past and proposed.

 

Subject to scrutiny that involves taking the keel off (replacing keel bolts if practical) and externally reinforcing the hull’s laminated shell around the keel (preferably with vinylester or epoxy) and correspondingly internally reinforcing/re-tabbing the connection between the hull and structural liner/girder sections in the sphere around the keel (by cutting out pan bases).

20311-121010174838611-1-000.jpg

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There is a reason why Swans, Amels, Hallberg Rassys are a little dearer than the yachts we refer to here, and why a Kiwi boat built our way costs a lot more too, its called built to last -not just for the first owner.

 

Indeed, and my only experience has been on some Amels, but those things are well built, tough and durable. Pity the new ones systems are so bloody complicated that I believe they might suffer the modern BMW and Audi problem of being absolutely great till they get a bit of age on them, then the overly complicated systems will become a major source of drain on the bank account and hair pigmentation.

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