Island Time 1,211 Posted May 14, 2017 Share Posted May 14, 2017 Well, I decided the other day to take my raft our of the boat (its well out of service now) and check it. It is a Seasaver 6 Plus R model. The history is this. I bought this raft new in 2004, traded in my old 4 man. It was serviced by RFD before I bought it, so as up to date as possible. I was serviced twice more - both by RFD, (and both quite expensive). The most recent time was just before the 2010 Solo Tasman Race. As we were heading offshore for some time, we opted for the vacuum bag option which extended the service period from 1-2 years. The raft lives in a transom locker that is not dry, (but is self draining) right on the boarding platform. It's in the vacuum bag in the normal orange valise. So, I took it out - the orange valise was pretty dirty, so I decided to take it out and clean the bag. Did that, the valise bag has survived 14 years pretty well. However, I was a bit disappointed to see there was water in the vacuum bag. The bag was no longer sealed. Oh well, I though, probably chafe. Not so though, on close inspection, the leak was because this bag was made up with just sikka or similar sealant along an opening in the base, and the sealant had failed. I would have thought that when you pay several hundred dollars more for a vacuum bag, it would be a decent, seam welded unit designed for the raft! Not so. Oh yeah, I found the leak by cutting off the (Also Sikka sealed) end of the inflation tube, and blowing up the vaccum bag. The leak was definitely the sikka seam, at a single point. Today I decided that I can not store the raft wet, so I cut open the vaccum bag and took the raft right out. Here is the vacuum bag, showing rust stains etc on the inside from the leak (and rusting the inflation cylinder) Once I spread the raft out on the garage floor to dry, several things immediately came to my attention. The inflation high pressure tubes from the bottle to the raft - one was badly kinked and the raft likely would not have inflated . I believe this is an installation error. Its a bit hard to see in the pic, but if you look carefully you can see it- its the top hose in the pic; The next, and equally disturbing, the ONLY service record on the service tag, is the one from when I first bought the raft. Now, the dates on the flares and ration packs etc are 12/2009, so the raft was opened and those packs replaced for the service in early 2010, but why was the raft service document not updated? Missing things on a raft service is very disconcerting! If it was properly serviced surely the hose would have been noticed! Also, iirc correctly this raft was sold to me with the understanding that it was the inflatable floor model its not. I know it's recommended to go have a look at your raft when it's being serviced, but when there is no service agent in your town, that is hard for many. The rest of the raft and gear seems fine, with a bit of rust on the inflation bottle. I've blown it up (with a vacuum cleaner) to see if its airtight. For anyone interested, here is what the survival kit and ration packs look like - at least their bags have kept them dry! So, the moral of all this is - if at all possible, go and have a look while your raft is being serviced!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
markm 30 Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 What got me when last looking at servicing a raft was the cost, absolutely prohibitive, raft 10 years old, out of service 12 months. We ended up hiring, it was about a tenth of the cost. There's just something fundamentally wrong there. I confess I also wondered if the cost of servicing was the same as cost new excluding retailers mark up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
raz88 96 Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 A very interesting post. For what rfd charge for a service you'd expect it to be mistake free. I was a bit shocked last time I had ours serviced to see the itemized receipt and realize that they had charged me a completely exorbitant amount for the tape they'd used to tape around the hard case. It was by far the most expensive blue tape I'd ever bought. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,211 Posted May 15, 2017 Author Share Posted May 15, 2017 Yeah Km, even the dog won't eat them! Yes, raft service centres must be certified. Seems like even stupid levels of paperwork can't ensure good service. I'd be a LOT happier servicing it myself, and living (or not) with the consequences! But I'm not "allowed" to. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Pope 243 Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Supposedly certified and it's pretty much a closed shop as well, RFD have the sole rights to service several other (most) brands of raft. in my case I have a German DSB (made by Continental of tyre fame) only RFD it appears, have the rights to service it.. Last time RFD serviced it I was given an estimated price of $600.00, the bill was $1600.00 +, eventually dropped to $1100.00+ after much too-ing and fro-ing. There was well known brand years ago that had a batch with a faulty glue line, only found on the first service, or when activated. there was never a product recall. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ex TL systems 63 Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 I think I would prefer to have a dinghy/ liferaft alternative, at least you get to see it/ use it and there would not be the servicing costs Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,568 Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 But you wouldn't get cat 1. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
raz88 96 Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 There was well known brand years ago that had a batch with a faulty glue line, only found on the first service, or when activated. there was never a product recall. I remember a case involving members or past members of this forum doing a delivery that resulted in abandonment of the boat where the story went that they hopped in the raft (a late model in service raft) and the floor fell out. Iirc luckily when that happened they were already in the process of being rescued, but it could have been quite different... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 I remember a case involving members or past members of this forum doing a delivery that resulted in abandonment of the boat where the story went that they hopped in the raft (a late model in service raft) and the floor fell out. Iirc luckily when that happened they were already in the process of being rescued, but it could have been quite different... I thought that had something to do with several hundred meters of 60 mm warp they were coiling inside the raft, which was heaving line from said ship carrying out the rescue. But I wasn't there and may be talking about a completely different "the bottom fell out" story. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MarkMT 68 Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 But you wouldn't get cat 1. So if I'm reading this right, the government's involvement in this exercise ensures that (i) there are a very limited supply of people who are allowed to tell you your equipment is ok, which allows them to charge you exorbitant fees and (ii) you may in fact have unsafe equipment and not know it. Do I have that right? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ex TL systems 63 Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 But you wouldn't get cat 1. Pretty sure the bipole mast cat from Waiheke, Flying Carpet by Bernard Rhodes?Built a dinghy that got cat 1 as a liferaft . a 10 to 12 ft with inflatable collar, canvas cover , small outboard and a sailing rig and safety gear could be pretty handy if your boat sunk or caught fire halfway to somewhere as well as daily use when cruising., I have 3 liferafts in my garage, well out of date, I would carry one of those as well ,after tsting and repacking it myself, to see if it works.If it was carried as an extra it would not need anofficial test Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ex TL systems 63 Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 when we sailed a cat back from Bundaberg we had no liferaft but a good size inflated rib ready to be cut free on the stern and water and a grab bag etc ready to go, the cat was foam sandwich so would not sink, an uncontrollable fire on board would have meant a quick abandon ship but in a capsize or collision we would likely want to stay with the big boat rather than jump in a small dinghy with limited resources. If you do have to abandon ship there is not much chance of self rescue in a liferaft , just hope that someone is coming to get you., whereas in a sailing dinghy with a handheld gps and extra batteries and supplies you have a chance of getting yourself somewhere, especially if in the tropics with warmer water and weather? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ex TL systems 63 Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Makes you wonder,,,, as cat 1 inspectors are rumoured to be reasonable people who may allow variations to the rules if it can be shown to be sensible, and safe... if you inspected . inflated , restocked and repacked your own raft and had video evidence of the process, and were even happy to prove it by opening/operating the raft if that is what the inspector wanted ,,, isnt that more sensible to know exactly what to expect if you do have to operate it for real rather than simply hoping that the person who last repacked it did a good job. And it you were allowed to do it yourself you may find it would get checked more often than only when you are forced to. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,211 Posted May 15, 2017 Author Share Posted May 15, 2017 Yep, that would be great - and crap like the kinked hose on mine could be easily fixed... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted May 15, 2017 Share Posted May 15, 2017 Makes you wonder,,,, as cat 1 inspectors are rumoured to be reasonable people who may allow variations to the rules if it can be shown to be sensible, and safe... if you inspected . inflated , restocked and repacked your own raft and had video evidence of the process, and were even happy to prove it by opening/operating the raft if that is what the inspector wanted ,,, isnt that more sensible to know exactly what to expect if you do have to operate it for real rather than simply hoping that the person who last repacked it did a good job. And it you were allowed to do it yourself you may find it would get checked more often than only when you are forced to. Genius! Saves me drawing up plans for a stitch and glue plywood "liferaft" aka dinghy with a cover. The main issue with my dinghy plan is where to put it, have been sussing building one just the right dimensions to sit on the cabin top, but not so big as to cover the grab rails, which would introduce a substantially greater hazard (falling overboard). I'm only sussing for CAT 3, but if I could check the perfectly good six man raft in my shed myself, and not have to pay moon beams for all the CAT 1 survival rubbish in it, I'd be back in action in no time. I have a funny feeling the 'safety industry cartel' will be up in arms and squealing in MNZ's ear in no time, who in turn will lean on YNZ. Couldn't possible break a lucrative industry monopoly. Chuck in the words "safety" followed closely by "liability" to put the fear of bureaucracy into the masses... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chewing Gum 17 Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 Those biscuits are disgusting - tried one the other day out of an expired raft - had to spit it out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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