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Niave newbie questions


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#1 mcp

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 08:40 PM

Hi all.

 

Im new to sailing, yachts and all. I have a lot of learning to do. Especially too realise my dreams.

 

But

 

While I am quite handy with asking google for advice and researching using the interwebs.  I just keep feeling like there are holes in what I am reading or a reason why my internal questions are hard to find answers for. So I thought I would start a new topic and well ask lots of naive and daft questions lol.  If anything it might answer a few for the other beginners also.   Hope this is okay?

 

Okay first up...While I am defiantly still learning about different boats designs and equipment.  One thing that does seem to be making itself very obvious is the price of boats. I some times look at boats on trademe and think I must be seriously missing the pluses of certain vessels, because they don't seem to offer a lot, especially for age and can look like shitters in the pictures?  Are boat prices usually quite firm or often sold for a lot less than advertised?  


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#2 island time

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 08:51 PM

Hi MCP, welcome aboard crew.org. I think that your question is way too broad. Do you have particular vessels in mind? Some on trademe are, (like some cars on trademe)  advertised for unrealistic prices, and wont sell, or wont sell for anywhere near the advertised prices. Some will...


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There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worth doing, as simply messing about in boats


#3 Black Panther

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Posted 21 May 2017 - 10:16 PM

Plys keep in mind that unlike most consumer items a sailboat is relatively expensive to operate and maintain. That coat can be more important in the long run than purchase price.
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#4 raz88

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 03:15 AM

The market for yachts in nz is a little irregular. I've done some work with a local brokerage and my experiences are:

As IT suggested there are plenty of boats for sale asking more than they're worth. This can be driven by a range of reasons e.g.
-husband has been told by wife to sell boat but really isn't motivated
-owner has spent $$$ on items for the boat and thinks this should be recoverable
-owner thinks their boat should be worth what it was 5 years ago and doesn't recognise the market price has dropped for their vessel
-owner is simply trying it on and is prepared to negotiate
-in some of the one design classes a boat that's known to be fast may fetch a lot more than average for that type of boat.

That aside, as BP said, people under estimate the cost of owning a boat - so it's often worth paying a fair price for a tidy one than buying the cheapest of whatever type you're looking at.

Plenty of the boats you see for sale will be quite negotiable. It's not a super easy market to sell in and if sellers are motivated they will negotiate. The best thing you can do is spend some time on trademe keeping an eye on what's for sale of the type you're interested in, and build a picture in your own mind of what things are worth.
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#5 wheels

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 06:48 AM

You will find there are as many or maybe even more answers to this as there are differing prices in boats.
Lets consider two Boats of exact same model for a starter. Both may have different prices. Some of the answers can be related to other answers
First of all, is the Boat listed with a Dealer or is it listed Privately.
Is the seller desperate, or happy to wait for a decent sale price.
Has the Boat been heavily sailed, or used maybe just 3weeks per yr.
Has the maintenance been kept up, or is it getting tired.
Has maintenance been carried out professionally or not.
Does the Boat need a new Sail wardrobe> or are the Sails in great condition.
Does it need re rigging, or has that been done at some stage.
Has it a pedigree name
And finally, How much do you want it, because a Boat is worth what someone is willing to pay.

I am sure that list can be added too by others.


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#6 motorbike

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 09:53 AM

All of the above and....

 

If I were to get into yachting now I would join a club and go racing for a while to get a feel for it. 

As for running costs the marina fees are like renting a spare room in town. Moorings are like renting a room in a sharemilkers house out the back of Ekatahuna :) I estimate  to keep an average boat on a 12m marina including annual haulout, the occasional new sail, string etc is about 12 to 15k a year.

 

If you kept it on a mooring and used tidal grids to antifoul, bought 2nd hand gear and became a trademe animal, you could reduce that to virtually 1 or 2 k annually.


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#7 cj!

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 12:16 PM

I'm currently in the market to buy. Saw one yacht bought less than a year ago by non-sailors. No upgrades bar for a half done interior cosmetic upgrade and they're asking for another $10,000 over their purchase price. They must think it is Auckland property and not a yacht. Really should be several thousand below what they paid given what needs doing to bring it up to scratch.


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#8 island time

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 12:54 PM

If you're going to keep a boat in good order, the old rule of 10% of cost pa is not far out. But lately, especially in Auckland, holding costs are becoming about the same for many. So, a 100k boat will cost 10-20k per year to keep, and keep in top condition.
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There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worth doing, as simply messing about in boats


#9 S.M.U.

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 01:17 PM

I'm currently in the market to buy. Saw one yacht bought less than a year ago by non-sailors. No upgrades bar for a half done interior cosmetic upgrade and they're asking for another $10,000 over their purchase price. They must think it is Auckland property and not a yacht. Really should be several thousand below what they paid given what needs doing to bring it up to scratch.

 

Just give them an offer and if they say no just move on. Everyone thinks they know what their boat is worth just some are not so realistic, same being with the buyers. Also you can wait for years for the perfect bargain or be yachting, I know which one I'd rather do.


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#10 mcp

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 06:32 PM

My question was broad.  I think {?} I am looking for  32 - 38ft bluewater capable monohull. [cutter or sloop rig] I plan to live on board for a few years and learn [off a mooring]. before I bugger off for a few.  Budget is semi flexable between $35 - $65k  depending on size and condition.  Maybe more....

I don't want a ferro [maybe i'm ignorant?] I have no problem with metal hulls at this stage [I can do the engineering thing], I have no problem with electrical systems that need attention either. 

 

Things that worry me, are the cost of Insurance, replacing rigging and sails??  How often?  etc?    

 

Things I don't understand is the comparative age, specification and asking price of a lot of yachts? To me, as newbie, there doesn't seem to be a pattern or consistency when comparing advertised specifications.  Are listed prices often a lot lower than the sold price?  Are brokers worth it? I have already seen a private yacht go up in value by 10k, going from private sale to a broker.  I get they need to make a living.

 

I would actually be grateful it you guys could give me suggestions of yachts you think I should research. 


Edited by mcp, 22 May 2017 - 06:34 PM.

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