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Extras before non-extras or ?


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#1 Knot Me... maybe

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 04:40 PM

Generally divisions flying extras start before those that don't but the reasoning for that I think is both a bit condescending and has a element of logic fail about it. Yes there are some good reasons to do so but then there are also good reasons to have it the other way around.

 

Would you have a problem being in a start zone or starting where Divisions with extras start after non-extras?

 

 


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#2 raz88

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 04:51 PM

Depends on the objective... If it's a wednesday night race and the objective is to get everyone to the bar at the same time, and the extras boats have a bigger course to complete, then get them away first.  But if it's a race to somewhere, and everyone has the same distance to cover, then I'm all for the non extras boats going first.  

If the extras boats can handle navigating the start line with their fleet, they can handle picking their way through a few non extras boats down the track somewhere.


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#3 harrytom

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 05:47 PM

agree with raz88,slower boats first if a cruising style race ,harbour racing extras away first


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#4 Knot Me... maybe

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 08:56 PM

The arguments for extras first seem to be -

 

- They don't have to get thru a slower fleet. - But these days lots of fast boats do go extras free so it is inevitable they will sail past slower boats that have kites at times. Also if you have a kite or not, if you can't miss a boat in front of you should you really be on the bloody water. So I'm not entirely sure that argument stacks up most of the time.

 

- Non extras tend to be the less experienced - Condescending bollocks is all I can come up with on that one.

 

- Kites do longer courses so need to go first - Yeap but far from always. If they do the same course then that argument fails totally.

 

- Saves congestion at rounding Marks - Dwaddle. How many times do we round marks in amongst a range of Divisions, flying extras or knot, so that argument fails.  Also with many clubs using the same marks finding yourself going around one one way when another fleet is rounding the other isn't unheard of... yet we all generally get around unscathed.

 

In these fast changing times where we are seeing a big growth in Roast Chicken racing are we not taking them as seriously as we do boats that fly extras? I'm thinking there is an argument, at times, that says No we probably aren't and that's just wrong.


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#5 markm

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 07:06 AM

With the racing I'm familiar with it isn't an issue of extras first, no extras second, it's done strictly on expected speed and the restricted divisions are typically not last.

Tying up with other divisions at marks is an issue but it's an issue no matter what order you start in, the order of start doesn't change that, only changes the specifics of which boats tie up with which.

Should also note that for the Westhaven racing, where it's a short inner harbour course the above applies but for longer distance racing where there's typically more time and space to do things, the reverse applies, ie, slowest first.


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#6 armchairadmiral

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 09:06 AM

Clearly some yacht racing has become a feelgood exercise with the main objective to get everyone back to the bar asap and all good friends etc ! Here is a new innovation for the feelgood race committees. It's a developement on Mark Foy racing. It's to be called Fark Moy racing. The fast boats go first in speed order at 1 minute intervals thus avoiding having to contest starts and slower boat passing. Once everyone has finished there should be no protests as no one has been forced to be near another boat. At the prizegiving the winners can be decided by adding an assumed handicap factor to the finish time. This can be adjusted with the wisdom of hindsight so that everyone finishes first equal. Of course the oldtimers will say this is not yacht racing but so what. No point in going out and that solves the problem of getting crew , boat and gear damage and protests about people who don't bother with the rules. It's amazing this hasn't been thought of before now. Everyone should go straight to the bar and discuss how things used to be and get an extra 2 hours at the bar ! No pun intended but its a win - win isn't it ?


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The ultimate result of shielding men from folly is to fill the world with fools.  Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher 1820 - 1903


#7 Jon

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 09:39 AM

Once we are all foiling without extras with the trickle down from the AC this question becomes irrelevant doesn't it ?
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#8 Knot Me... maybe

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 10:37 AM

Once we are all foiling without extras with the trickle down from the AC this question becomes irrelevant doesn't it ?

Just like trying to ask serious questions here about real life boating is fast becoming irrelevant?

 

As only one or 2 people seem to be interested in trying to help improving yachting for the locals I'll just make a decision based on what I think with input from the very few and that will just be that.


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#9 S.M.U.

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 11:48 AM

My 2 cents.

 

Start no extras first, let extras go through them, encourages no extras to push and maybe in the future join the extras fleet. 


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#10 Knot Me... maybe

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 12:08 PM

My 2 cents.

 

Start no extras first, let extras go through them, encourages no extras to push and maybe in the future join the extras fleet. 

Interestingly that is pretty much what most are saying.


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