Clipper 343 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 The problem here is that we only get to hear one side of the story. Here is a novel idea instead of whingeing on an internet forum. Ring the guy up or go and talk to him. A lot more productive. From sabres story, hes tried multiple times to ring the guy up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
southernman 73 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 I think it's a common problem in the marine industry especially if you are not overseeing the work yourself. It leaves the contractor to make decisions when you are not there. KM is right though communication is everything. I'd rather know the bad news that i'm up for more money or a late delivery rather than have to find out when something does not arrive or you get an invoice for twice the amount. It's not just age related, a certain sail loft right now was meant to have a sail delivered to me ordered 6 weeks ago and I'm flying out to Fiji next week, no communication or only when I contact them has meant it won't be coming to Fiji with me which means it will cost some money to DHL it. The question will come down to who pays for that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zozza 291 Posted September 1, 2017 Author Share Posted September 1, 2017 I think it's a common problem in the marine industry especially if you are not overseeing the work yourself. It leaves the contractor to make decisions when you are not there. KM is right though communication is everything. I'd rather know the bad news that i'm up for more money or a late delivery rather than have to find out when something does not arrive or you get an invoice for twice the amount. It's not just age related, a certain sail loft right now was meant to have a sail delivered to me ordered 6 weeks ago and I'm flying out to Fiji next week, no communication or only when I contact them has meant it won't be coming to Fiji with me which means it will cost some money to DHL it. The question will come down to who pays for that. Communication and a dose of common courtesy. I am sure some customers are assholes, but most of us are are reasonable people. In my case a simple phone call or text a bit earlier in the day, saying "Sorry Zozza, things have got a bit busy, and haven't been able to complete your windows, but I will have them ready Monday afternoon for you". That would not have been a problem. Instead I get a rundown of his "industry", which was preceded by a rude "Not going to happen". In Sabres case - the guy has dropped the ball big time. Just how many times does he have to phone this guy? And in your case Southernman....six weeks ago? That is just outrageous. Sails are generally not cheap either. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 At first, I wondered if the rigging guy I used had moved to Tauranga. My story was a $5K ballpark estimate ending with being presented with an over $18K bill.But trying to forget all about that one now.On a more recent story, I am trying to get some double glazing installed. It's retrofitted into Cedar frames. Three windows. Two in the bedroom and one in the lounge.I rang one firm, told them it is urgent and a few days later, their guy turned up to measure. They promised a quote within 2 days. A week later, I went to see them to see where the quote was at. Sorry, haven't gotten to it, going away for weekend, will do it tonight before I go and Email it to you. Nope no Email. Went in next day and saw someone else, and they managed to work out the quote for me. It was damn near $7K and they originally had given me a ballpark that would have been no where near that. So I waited till person got back following week and got the official quote. Price was correct. So I asked if they would supply Glass only and I router out the windows and fit myself. They were not keen, but going to ask and get back to me. I have not heard a thing a month later. Within that month however, I went to an opposition. They were really helpful and said no problem on the self install. They would give me diamensions to cut to and help if I needed. They gave me a quote on several different types of glass configurations for Bedroom only. The cheapest was under a grand, the E glass was just over. That was brilliant. Lets get going on this. OK, they will send a guy out to check measurements so as no mistake is made. This was a Monday via Email. Wednesday they emailed and said, how about Friday at 4PM. I replied at 6.15PM that this would be great, my wife will be home to meet him. Friday came, wife had a meeting and so I finished early and came home at 3.30. 4 came and went, no window guy. At 4.45 I called and was told that no one knew of the job. Besides, all the team was in Picton on a big job. Turned out the office girl that sent email only works Mondays and Wednesdays, so she didn't see email and they don't have the system set up for someone more important to check all office emails. So they would get onto it Monday. Monday came and went. Tuesday I called again. Girl I talked to last week was away sick, so no one got the story. Will have it sorted Wednesday. So yesterday I went in yet again and the Girl that was sick was back, but could not remember the job. So she would get the other girl onto it Monday. So yet again I wait. I started all this saga the week we moved in. We have been in for over 5weeks now and still haven't got the windows in.Please picture an emoticon inserted here of one pulling ones hair out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zozza 291 Posted September 1, 2017 Author Share Posted September 1, 2017 Oh jeezuz that is a SHOCKER Wheels. Lost for words. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zozza 291 Posted September 1, 2017 Author Share Posted September 1, 2017 Could also mean times are better than we all think - Billy English says so and wants your vote - and they make enough that the odd, or even more than a few customers they give sh*t service too, doesn't matter to their bottom line. One thing I have noticed in the marine industry, if your boat is under 30 foot, bar a few exceptions - those almost "lotto" type moments that Sabre talks about - they just do not wanna know. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ex TL systems 63 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Yes you need an explanation and it would have been better to be contacted first but it may not be fair to just pay 800 when he said about 600 That is not a written quote that details work to be done. And if others have recommended him it's unlikely that he has suddenly turned into a crook. Likely the person sending the account knows nothing about any discussion about the estimate etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ex TL systems 63 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Well at least it is a way to start a conversation I wonder if he just said 600 because he did a similar job 20 years ago and that's what it cost then m Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ex TL systems 63 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Oops maybe ring someone else to get a rough comparison if they said 2k you might feel differently Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ex TL systems 63 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Agreed the problem is lack of communication from him which makes it hard to resolve and I don't doubt you at all as we have met before. good luck Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Winter 42 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 It is my right to have an explanation as to why the bill was double his estimate that he gave me. I agree - and If you don't get any explanation, you should pay whatever you feel is fair, and don't give him any explanation for why you paid what you paid! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bazzathemammoth 37 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 U guys are better than me. I've had several disputes over the years such as sabres and if they are unreasonable and unwilling to work it out I let them send it to the debt collectors. I don't see the point in chasing people up so that I can pay them. All you have to say to the debt collector is that you are willing to pay but have an issue with quality/cost/whatever. The debt collector will then kick it back to the company and the company will come back with their tail between their legs and renegotiate. That's how it has worked for me anyway. Oh and we have used said rigger with no issues for years. Not denying sabres experience either of course. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Myjane 40 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Sabre that's what he wants is for you to negotiate ,take the time and fight , or just pay the quoted sum and say no more wich is what I would do after your efforts , Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bazzathemammoth 37 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Sabre that's what he wants is for you to negotiate ,take the time and fight , or just pay the quoted sum and say no more wich is what I would do after your efforts , I think if he wanted to negotiate there would be some communication. Just my 2c. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytom 640 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Quotes need to be written to have any standing regarding price otherwise it is a ball park figure and final price is the price. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bazzathemammoth 37 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Yea ok. I'll do some work for you. 100 estimate but secretly it's gonna be 2k. Final price is final price dude don't complain. I'm sure someone reckoned final invoices have to be +20% max bigger than estimate. Don't know if that's legal though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytom 640 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 quote or estimate www.consumerprotection.govt.nz/get-guidance/contracts-quotes-and-estimates/getting-quotes-and-estimates Quotes are more exact than estimates EstimatesAn estimate is roughly how much the tradesperson or professional thinks the job will cost. They must use their skill and experience to make the estimate. The actual price may be more or less, but it shouldn’t be too much more – it should be within 10 to 15 percent. QuotesA quote is an offer to do a job for an exact price. If you accept the quote, the contractor can’t charge you more than the agreed price. Make sure the quote states if it includes GST. Since the cost of materials and hourly rates changes over time, the quote will only be valid for a certain time period. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Myjane 40 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 There's estimating for a job you have done many times ,or there is gestimating that's the one that a lot of contractors use , if your going to give a guy an estimate , firstly cost the materials and then an approx of hours and tell him what it could cost if if if , you come across a prob , but it's courtesy to contact the bill payer and go over the issues that have arisen. Not jus barrel ahead and hope he will pay , thoes guys should be exposed Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Myjane 40 Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 Or some the lack of there own ability to know how long it should take Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 Communication is the most important. People simply do not like surprises when the surprise is hugely more expensive than they expected, even if it was an estimate. It's really simple to pick up a phone and say hey I found a problem, it will be a bit more, do you want me to continue. When I was in business, I did this myself and usually the client was happy to spend a bit more. But give them something more expensive unexpectedly and you are in for a fight or a Client that will never return.In reply to a comment someone said about maybe this is a sign of businesses being busy. Yes it is, but that is no excuse. Everyone seems snowed under at the mo. That's great, but it is no excuse for not communicating. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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