Jump to content


Photo

What boats does IRC like?


  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#11 Fish

Fish

    Advanced Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,799 posts

Posted 30 October 2017 - 11:24 AM

Well, I wouldn't get too upset about it. Generally, to rate well on IRC, your boat needs to sail like a barge. Not a lot of sailors really enjoy sailing barges, so they get a boat that is sweet to sail, but doesn't rate that well on IRC.

There is a narrow exception, and that is designs that are optimized to IRC, and are still kinda nice to sail. I do mean 'designs' and not 'boats' that are optimized to the rule. The Sunfast is almost definitely a good example of a design that would do not bad under IRC.

 

As you said, you've been doing a lot of things to make your boat go faster and be nice to sail. IRC penalises that. Mainly, because it is a handicapping system. By logic, if you change your boat to go faster, the handicapping system should address that so that all boats in the fleet finish in a dead heat. i.e. if you tweak your boat to go faster, IRC will penalise you, so you still finish in a dead heat with a 4 knot sh*t box.

 

The idea with IRC is that a more skillful sailor (not the fastest boat) will win. If you are a skillful sailor, well prepared, and get a little bit of good luck with conditions etc, you 'should' be able to win under IRC. The logic is a gun sailor on a 4 knot sh*t box can still win a major race, so you don't need an arms race on design and sails etc. The reality is mildly different though.


  • 0

#12 Knot Me... maybe

Knot Me... maybe

    Advanced Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,777 posts

Posted 30 October 2017 - 04:01 PM

Thanks Fish, that's confirms what I've been getting today. I can see why the rule but it is one my baby doesn't.

 

Now what to do....ahggggggggg!!!!!

 

Noumea was the end game anyway, now which way do I go there has suddenly become the question.


  • 0

#13 wal

wal

    Advanced Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,631 posts
  • LocationAuckland

Posted 03 November 2017 - 02:49 PM

Demonstrator rated 1.132

 

Pete Geary's Cookson 39 was 1.139

 

In other words - it wasn't worth rolling over in bed to tap the missus on the bum before rolling the other way and looking out the window to see if it was worth thinking about getting out of bed before wondering if it was worth phoning the crew to see if they had any rum left so we could go down to the boat and drink it before wondering if it was worth thinking about dropping the lines off and wasting gas to get to the start line.

 

And my boat even had a double berth!


  • 1

Wal'



The combination of careful conservatism and out-of-control wishful thinking common to the male of the species


#14 Knot Me... maybe

Knot Me... maybe

    Advanced Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,777 posts

Posted 03 November 2017 - 04:12 PM

Oh gawd, the though of you tapping anything I find a tad disturbing ;)

 

I am trying to run a Trial Cert as there is a stock 930 on the 'already measured' list they update each year. As it was last updated in 2014 it would suggest IRC isn't going off. But the spreadsheet you have to fill out is busted, the panel that I'm pretty sure say 'Important read this' you can't see more than the 1st word of each sentence. And to fill it out accurately it wants measurements of things I've never heard of and things we haven't got yet. Quite frankly it's rather mickey mouse.

 

There is -

Bavaria 38 with .968

Sigma 36 with .931

and you'd have to think the Sun fast would be a gimme for IRC as well.

 

From what I'm being told it appears Marks suggestion 'you haven't a hope in hell' is highly accurate.

 

BUGGER!!!!!!!!!!!!


  • 0

#15 ballystick

ballystick

    Advanced Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 609 posts
  • LocationTauranga

Posted 03 November 2017 - 07:27 PM

When KM first suggested the idea of a current IRC race I was amazed there were some being run in this side of the world.

Boats such as Thompson and Ross designs are roasted and I think they don't account for the full range of conditions, such as upwind for instance.

The basic concept of IRC is great but the handicap calculation is unrealistic, a modified IRC would be an improvement from someone such as Mark Mulcare who has a huge source of real southern Pacific world data to bring about a more acceptable handicap system. A modified Racetrack that focuses on boat design performance rather than boat and crew may be good compromise to achieve the impossible quest for the ideal handicap system.


  • 0
We cannot direct the wind but we CAN adjust our sails

#16 Fish

Fish

    Advanced Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,799 posts

Posted 03 November 2017 - 08:10 PM

What, like PHRF base number?
  • 0

#17 ballystick

ballystick

    Advanced Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 609 posts
  • LocationTauranga

Posted 03 November 2017 - 08:13 PM

Yeah


  • 0
We cannot direct the wind but we CAN adjust our sails

#18 Knot Me... maybe

Knot Me... maybe

    Advanced Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,777 posts

Posted 04 November 2017 - 07:12 AM

When KM first suggested the idea of a current IRC race I was amazed there were some being run in this side of the world.

Boats such as Thompson and Ross designs are roasted and I think they don't account for the full range of conditions, such as upwind for instance.

The basic concept of IRC is great but the handicap calculation is unrealistic, a modified IRC would be an improvement from someone such as Mark Mulcare who has a huge source of real southern Pacific world data to bring about a more acceptable handicap system. A modified Racetrack that focuses on boat design performance rather than boat and crew may be good compromise to achieve the impossible quest for the ideal handicap system.

2 out of 22 entries list a IRC number, a 3rd would be silly not to join those 2 I reckon.

 

Sounds very much like IRC and Ross boats like each other about as much as Kim Jong Fatty and the Ginger tosspot so no go there. But I may try for a trial cert out of interest....if the stupid thing can be made to work. On sussing it, IRC, does have a bit of a 'feel' it's on it's way down rather than up but that maybe because of the very mickey mouse way you have to apply.

 

PHRF I only get if races that require it, usually grudgingly, and regard it a little more of another tax than a tool. It's clunky, slow and feels more like IRC like rating than a active handicapping system based on performance.

 

I gauge how we went off Racetrack, just keep searching for that triple number %. Don't know what Mark does in there, I dread to even think, but it's clean, moves fast and I have found it highly accurate, if you've had a blinder you'll see 107 whatever %, if you had a shitter, yeap there's ya 90 or even worse.


  • 0

#19 Kestrahl

Kestrahl

    Advanced Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 393 posts
  • LocationLangkawi/Phuket

Posted 13 November 2017 - 02:59 AM

I've been up here in SE Asia for the last 3 or 4 years, and its all IRC, except for cruising division. There is no PHRF and generally no line honors prizes. In the 30-40ft range IRC is quite tough on light boats so some of the UK purpose designed IRC boats are pretty warped. Generally IRC suits boats that are fast upwind, so you design your boat heavy displacement style (but with most of the weight in the keel and no bulb) put a very tall rig on it and no runners and a non overlapper. You put the smallest upwind sails on you can get away with, and the biggest kite that will fit (but with a short pole and a bowsprit that doesn't extend past the end of the pole to fly your leech flapping code zero). Take the Corby 29 as an example, a 29fter with a rig the same height as our davidson 35, 8mm rigging, hydraulic backstay.... death rolls downwind. The boats IRC creates in this smaller range are not good boats. 

The funny thing is the smaller purpose designed boats don't do so well here, due to the predominately light winds. Any reaching and a older style boat with a genoa will be more powered up, as will the lighter boats like a Mumm 30. Before IRC didn't take into account the hollow in the leech of a genoa, but now it does so they don't rate as badly. For the Tasman race a 1020 or a 1104 would rate quite well. 


  • 1

#20 Knot Me... maybe

Knot Me... maybe

    Advanced Member

  • Advanced Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,777 posts

Posted 16 November 2017 - 01:53 PM

The Sun Fast is going IRC, it will be interesting to see it's number.


  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users