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#11 Myjane

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Posted 30 October 2017 - 11:20 PM

The police have already been in there on foot looking about , it’s on utube , the mines been stable since and explorable with caution as always ,
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#12 ScottiE

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 05:14 AM

All of which is pure speculation, which I'll speculate was, promulgated by people who's agenda was to discredit the government and ignore the objective assessment of the evidence that was available regarding a re-entry.
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#13 marinheiro

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 05:18 AM

Another view, copied from WOBH

 

Severe tunnel/excavation instability

When the disaster occurred in 2010 there were several major explosions over 4 days. The last explosion ignited the coal which generated very high temperatures within the mine workings and even damaged some of the steel above the workings. Mine workings are developed into a rock mass which has a 3 dimensional insitu stress field (pressure within the rock). When the tunnels are opened up the stress redistributes around the opening and “attempts” to break that rock so that it falls into the opening or closes the gap. Miners use a combination of rock bolting, steel supports, wood supports or filled packs of various sorts to prevent that process. The effects of the multiple blasts and extreme heat will have seriously damaged the support systems and made the rock around the workings very unstable. Conditions will have continued to deteriorate in the 7 years since the disaster and that will have been accentuated by the Hawera Fault which crosses the main access drift before the coal seam.  Here is a quote from the royal commission report on the disaster;

In other words – tricky rock conditions even before the blasts.

“Construction of the drift took much longer than anticipated, as did mine roadway development. Delays were caused by a downthrust between faults, called a graben, which created a zone of sandstone instead of coal, and the collapse of the bottom section of the ventilation shaft during construction. The collapse meant that a bypass had to be built to reconnect to the upper part of the shaft about 50m above pit bottom”

Methane/Coal dust explosion

Methane is explosive between 5% and 15% in air. It needs that mix and a source of ignition to set it off. Methane has been building up steadily in the workings over the last 7 years as it seeps out of the coal seam. Coal dust has also been accumulating in the same time frame. The problem might be that inadvertently introducing air back into the workings now (as the re-entry takes place) could rapidly return the methane mix to explosive with hot spots igniting it again. This will result in another massive explosion – it may be followed by an even more powerful coal dust explosion which would damage the roof even further. It would be like standing in a shotgun barrel (explosive forces take the path of least resistance) when the shot is taken. That is not a place to be at any time.

Four separate remote control robots which have entered the workings failed to return. They are designed for extreme conditions, they don’t have to breathe or keep a normal body temperature. This is also a terrible reality which must be considered when we wonder if there are any remains of the poor souls who are entombed in the mine through no fault of their own.

If a brave team of mine rescuers or other personnel die in an attempt to re-access Pike River, then who will be held accountable for their deaths? Would it be unfair to demand an answer to that question before the re-entry? The best thing for the Pike River mine is to declare it as a grave.

 

Having spent 30 years in the mining industry, I have learnt underground mines of any nature must be treated with the greatest respect and Coal mines even more so.

I would not send anyone into Pike, just too many unknowns.


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#14 Sabre

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 06:35 AM

****Mr Forster and Mr Monk will give MPs on the committee a report by mining engineers Robert Stevenson and David Creedy, which outlines a case for safe re-entry.
"Is it simple and straightforward? No, it's not," said Mr Forster. "I need to make two things clear - this is a re-entry of the drift, not the mine; and this is a fresh air process. This does not require breathing apparatus, we don't need heroes taking risks with their lives. That's not what is proposed here."****

If these experts are happy to put their career and reputation on the line then they must be very confident.

At the end of the day, even if they hit an insurmountable obstacle and pull the pin followed by an open, upfront and honest discussion with the family then I would be happy.

Doing sneaky little manned and robotic excursions that only come to light years later when someone leaks a video doesn't cut it as far as I'm concerned. What were they doing down there? Seeing if there is anything left that will incriminate management?

Let's not forget that the biggest hurdle to going in there and the one excuse the gnats keep regurgitating is the bloody legislation they put in place!

How anyone can think that the gnats have dealt with this issue in a selfless, honest, upfront way with any level of integrity makes me lose just a little more faith in humanity
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#15 Myjane

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 06:50 AM

All speculation if ,,if ,, if ,,if ,, , huge ass covering process it will be up to the guys going in to make the decisions I would think , like I do when I climb up your house roof to find a leek your complaining about , I could die , I could fall off , an earth quake may shake me off , I could slip off , but I will use my common sence and experience from climbing thousands of other roofs and I say to my workers the same ,
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#16 Knot Me... maybe

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 07:06 AM

Let's not forget that the biggest hurdle to going in there and the one excuse the gnats keep regurgitating is the bloody legislation they put in place!

How anyone can think that the gnats have dealt with this issue in a selfless, honest, upfront way with any level of integrity makes me lose just a little more faith in humanity

They put the laws in place due to public response to Pike itself. You wanted the laws change now you're bitching about the law change. Damned if the do, damned if they don't.

 

If you think the last Government had the morels of the Waffen SS, as your posts do attempt to suggest, I'd suggest you've gone though the boundary of reality and are in too* deep to be healthy. Your posts are looking far more like political rants than they do exhibit any desire to see what genuinely is down there, what the real truth of what happened is or showing much sympathy for the families.

 

Unless something new comes to light how about we let the recovery happen in the best manner as decided by the people whose will have their arse and everything on the line, being those who do go in and those who said to go in, and the experts. Once that's happened and if something is found then fill ya boots. Until then all there can be is partially informed bitching about history, a history that now can not be changed.

 

I am in the group that thinks someone needs to go in for a suss, as long as it's not totally reckless and considering we can put man on the moon and 12 kilometres under the sea then surely we can get some in there. The bitching, some rational most loony tunes but bitching all the same, will not stop until someone has. Given the gear and the OK by some experts, I'd seriously consider going in myself.

 

* - is that a 'to' or a 'too' situation? This englandish stuff can be tricky.


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#17 armchairadmiral

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 07:16 AM

Interesting how the Green Loonies have flown below the radar in this. If they hadn't opposed open cast mining this wouldn't have happened. Let Winston, Andrew Little and anyone else who wants to go into the mine and leave them to it.
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#18 Sabre

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 09:09 AM

They put the laws in place due to public response to Pike itself. You wanted the laws change now you're bitching about the law change. Damned if the do, damned if they don't.  Lol.. I dont think anyone wanted the laws changed so the fat cats have another tool to cover their asses.. I certainly didnt!

 

If you think the last Government had the morels of the Waffen SS, as your posts do attempt to suggest, I'd suggest you've gone though the boundary of reality and are in too* deep to be healthy. Your posts are looking far more like political rants than they do exhibit any desire to see what genuinely is down there, what the real truth of what happened is or showing much sympathy for the families. Again.. lol.. look at the facts and the timeline KM.. Nationals unwillingness to resolve this incident and attempting to bury it under legislation is wrong, wrong, wrong. If you think it is unhealthy to despise a government that treats its citizens like they have then guilty as charged. However I would counter that anyone who swallows the gnats bullshit lines and believes we should all hide behind threats of liability is delusional beyond help.

 

Unless something new comes to light how about we let the recovery happen in the best manner as decided by the people whose will have their arse and everything on the line, being those who do go in and those who said to go in, and the experts. Once that's happened and if something is found then fill ya boots. Until then all there can be is partially informed bitching about history, a history that now can not be changed. Finally starting to make sense.

 

I am in the group that thinks someone needs to go in for a suss, as long as it's not totally reckless and considering we can put man on the moon and 12 kilometres under the sea then surely we can get some in there. The bitching, some rational most loony tunes but bitching all the same, will not stop until someone has. Given the gear and the OK by some experts, I'd seriously consider going in myself. Now we are talking.. what size hardhat do you wear? Or do they not make them that big?

 

* - is that a 'to' or a 'too' situation? This englandish stuff can be tricky.


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#19 Fish

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 09:36 AM

Interesting how the Green Loonies have flown below the radar in this. If they hadn't opposed open cast mining this wouldn't have happened. Let Winston, Andrew Little and anyone else who wants to go into the mine and leave them to it.

I'm sorry but that is just illogical.

If it wasn't for God who put the coal there in the first place this would never have happened.

 

The tragedy is the fault of the Green Party and not the people operating the mine.

 

I guess if you get a speeding ticket its the fault of the car manufacturer for making a car that can exceed the speed limit?

 

if you drown at sea is it the fault of the Coastguard for not rescuing you?

 

Do you own anything that is steel? It must be your fault for supplying demand to the steel industry that needed the coking coal


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#20 Puff

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Posted 31 October 2017 - 01:26 PM

Andrew Little, National Secretary of the Engineering, Printing and Manufacturing Union (now E tu), three days after the tragedy said – “Every mine on the West Coast takes great care when it goes into production and I don’t think Pike River is any different from that. They’ve had a good health and safety committee that’s been very active. So there’s nothing before now that’s alerted us to any greater risk of this sort of incident happening than at any other time.” – Morning Report, November 22, 2010 –


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