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Biology (Not another antifouling thread)


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#1 madyottie

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Posted 06 November 2017 - 06:02 PM

Do we have any Doctors or medical researchers about?

Here's my question...

If you are given blood pressure meds, the first line is to reduce the amount of blood being moved. This is usually with a drug like cilazapril, which reduces pump volume.

Exercise helps by increasing blood flow, which helps to dilate blood vessels.

Logically, if there is less flow, there is more chance for sediment to settle in lower areas, such as ankles and feet.

Wouldn't vasodilation be a better option? And keep the heart going full capacity?

I've recently had an increase in meds, and am now always feeling drowsy and lethargic. It makes me nervous and I don't like it!
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#2 DrWatson

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 12:48 AM

Do we have any Doctors or medical researchers about?

Here's my question...

If you are given blood pressure meds, the first line is to reduce the amount of blood being moved. This is usually with a drug like cilazapril, which reduces pump volume.

Exercise helps by increasing blood flow, which helps to dilate blood vessels.

Logically, if there is less flow, there is more chance for sediment to settle in lower areas, such as ankles and feet. No, unless you have rust in your blood. But if you mean a greater chance of thrombosis, I'm not 100% sure, depends on the other drugs you might be taking.

Wouldn't vasodilation be a better option? And keep the heart going full capacity? Well, normally a first line for High BP can be for him to stop talking to KM... but seriously, many of the BP meds have an immediate effect, for acute high BP. Mine simply seemed to slow my heart, and my BP dropped.

I've recently had an increase in meds, and am now always feeling drowsy and lethargic. It makes me nervous and I don't like it! You need to tell your cardiologist and GP this immediately!  Have you measured your BP while on the new dose? it may simply be too low now. What's your heart rate. You can easily and cheaply buy a BP measure device for home, and should be less than $100.

It's not really my area but I'll look into it a bit.


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#3 madyottie

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 04:50 AM

Thanks.
BP largely unchanged, around 170/110, HR sitting around 47 bpm at rest.

Before the changes, BP was about the same (I'm pretty sure it was actually lower) RHR has always been around 56-60bpm.

What I have found is since the changes I don't have the energy to train, and if I do train, it takes a long time to recover, like a week.

Training being a 90 minute full on karate class. Ideally 3 a week, lately less than 1 weekly.

I can't find any research on the physiological effects of long term use of cilazapril and/or metoprolol, but it seems to me that inability to exercise isn't going to help my bp.

Thanks again 😊
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#4 wheels

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 05:27 AM

Sorry to hear of your problems madyottie.
Firstly, I am not even going to try to pretend I know anything about this. I don't.
But on having a bit of a read of the Med, I am not sure the Med is what the problem you are experiencing is causing.
I suggest you go back to your Doc and explain the symptoms you are experiencing.
From everything I have read this morning, this drug should not cause the side effect you are experiencing(although I am not a Dr and could be wrong) and it may be that the initial cause of the high blood pressure may be causing the other problem as well.
Cilazapril is an ACE inhibitor. The E stands for Enzyme and this med inhibits the enzyme. The RAAZ (really long word) is the part of our body, based on Hormones, that regulates fluid balance and our Blood pressure. The active ingredient in Cilazapril inhibits the enzyme causing a dilation of the blood vessels and a reduction in blood volume.
While there are some side effects of this drug, the symptoms you are describing do not seem to be one of them. However, there are dozens of causes of High blood pressure and many of them could be a cause. It could be worth getting the Dr to look deeper into your problem and further tests may be needed to ensure there is not some other issue that the high blood pressure is a symptom of.
 


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#5 madyottie

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 12:05 PM

Cheers Wheels.

I'm back in on Monday, will ask far too many questions and hope we can get to the cause and solution
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#6 Chrisc

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 01:28 PM

On the face of it, 170/110 is getting up there a bit but the numbers do need to be taken in context. 120/70 is now being touted as the ideal BP but this is a fairly recent set of numbers and was derived by a group of researchers running a program on a bunch of very fit twenty something year old paratroopers in the UK. Doesnt really apply in real life. And I'm sure most will remember the old standby of having a systolic (upper number) of 100 plus your age which is still regarded as acceptable by many professionals.
Secondly, I would doubt you have a real-time systolic of 170. To get a good reading you need to amble into your doctors surgery in a very relaxed state of mind, take a seat and spend 10 minutes talking about the weather, sailing, what's on tv etc before he takes your BP. And when he does, your arm should be raised to heart level and the reading should be taken on each arm. If all of this doesn't happen then it comes under the heading of 'White Coat Syndrome' and after years of taking BP s on patients I can assure you it's a real phenomenon. In my case, my BP via the doctor is 145/75, and at home in a relaxed environment and on my own correctly calibrated equipment I am 130/70.
Concerning meds, your doctor prescribes on a host of indicators, systolic/diastolic differentiation, HR, cholesterol, kidney function etc and if can sometimes take a while to get the right meds or combination of meds to give the desired results. So relax (that will help hugely on its own) and be assured that you will get your BP under control with minimal medication side effects.
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#7 wheels

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 05:03 PM

Chris made a comment that reminded me of a conversation I was having with a guy the other day. He is 85 and very active and very fit. He still runs. But his Dr always recorded his blood pressure as being too high. He was not put on medication for it, but the Dr always made comments about Salt and other things. The guy the had a small knee injury that put him out of running for while. He felt he was no where near as fit as he used to be. He went for a check up and the Dr recorded a normal blood pressure for his age. So he said to the Dr, well I haven't done anything different, except I haven't been able to run for the last month or so.
So MY, is it possible you have a high BP because actually, you are fit.
Also as Chris said above about relaxing, I can change my blood pressure very easily by doing just that.  If I don't think about it and am yapping away when the Dr is checking, I might get a high reading. I take a deep breath and relax and my BP goes to normal just like that.
I have to get a 3 month check up and my blood pressure is and always has been perfect. Yet I am far from being fit.


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#8 madyottie

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 05:21 PM

Hahahaha fit? Me?

I really have no idea, I've had high BP for as long as I've been an adult, through working as a gym instructor/trainer, doing a ridiculously physical job, changing body composition and diets.

Until a couple of years ago it sat around 150/100, then I was prescribed cilazapril, in tiny amounts. Since that time it seems to be slowly climbing skywards, so the doc upped the dose.
Then I re-injured my neck a few months ago, and had some random chest pain. Of course I was rushed to hospital,plugged into assorted machines, and ultimately told it wasn't cardiac, just unknown pains, possibly digestive.

Now I'm cilazapril high dose, plus metoprolol. I've never felt worse, energy wise.
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#9 Chrisc

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 06:30 PM

There is something else that I have noticed during my years of molesting people on behalf of the ambulance service, and also as a result of my sea time on tankers. I have tried to research it further but without success.
MY is stating an at rest HR of around 50bpm. This is borderline bradycardic and, I will hasten to add, not a bad thing. Over the years I have noticed something of a correlation between a high systolic number and a low HR.
Now to oil tankers.
Tankers I sailed on had discharge piston pumps with either a rapid stroke delivering a small amount of oil at each stroke at low pressure, or slow stroke pumps delivering a large amount of oil at each stroke under high pressure. Output from both types was more or less the same. You can see why an ex ambo with an interest in cardiology might find this interesting?
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#10 madyottie

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 06:45 PM

I was hoping there would be someone on here with full access to google scholar.

 

I'd like to know whether there has ever been a study into the cause or effect of long term BP meds vs long term high BP. 

 

I don't mean what happens if high BP  is left, we all know that can lead to cardiac failure, kidney problems,strokes etc.

 

I mean, does lowering BP artificially, then lead to vasorestriction as the body attempts to maintain stasis? which would then require an increase in meds, which could lead to further restriction...?

 

I may be completely  off track in my thinking - Like my politics!


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