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Is the future AWB's and Frankenboats?


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#11 Rawhide

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 11:00 AM

yep it is the 2pot Epoxy i am calling an undercoat,  using that and two top coats was fine,  but originally onto new ply i was told dont worry about just put the low sheen top coat on, and 8 coats later you could still see blemishes under it all,  i probalby should have stopped at 4 and asked the question. I was also using white/white,  comes up good over the epoxy undercoat.

 

Great product but put the Epoxy on first,  hides everything and easy to sand


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Yosemite, Mr Kamikaze, Faster Coyote, A.W.O.L, Faster Coyote, and then Rawhide

#12 Knot Me... maybe

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 11:56 AM

Ah ha, yeap I found the same on the new bulkheads and bunk fronts, all being new ply. On the epoxy and polyester surfaces it didn't happen.

 

Did you notice how it like a little longer than solvent based to get hard, not go off but harden up after that? I found sanding the day after painting the paper bogged up. Leave it 24 hrs longer and it was a dream and a easy dream to sand.

 

 

Great product but put the Epoxy on first,  hides everything and easy to sand

Totally agree and I'm of the mind next time I'll epoxy then 2 coats of urethane as standard.

 

I went in knowing I was pushing the system and the Cotech team did tell me that but after a chat and some sample panels where they said 'we're not sure but it should be OK' so I took the punt, fully aware I could be visiting Mr Cock ups place. I'm OK with where I got and why but as noted next time I won't bother being such a anal smartarse and do the full 3 coats.


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#13 southernman

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 12:28 PM

I'm building a new boat BUT the costs are blowing out and fast.  Next boat I build won't be here in NZ rather offshore - just the labour is killing me along with 'estimates' that grow 200%.  

 

Next boat will be a fixed price build, sure the current boat will be nice but good lord it's expensive.  


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#14 muzled

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 12:51 PM

I'm building a new boat BUT the costs are blowing out and fast.  Next boat I build won't be here in NZ rather offshore - just the labour is killing me along with 'estimates' that grow 200%.  

 

Next boat will be a fixed price build, sure the current boat will be nice but good lord it's expensive.  

 

oooh, nice!

 

What made you opt for new over used?

 

And when is launch date???

 

Sounds like it deserves a thread of its own...  (with progress photo's...)


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#15 southernman

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 02:06 PM

Mainly the carbon mast build cost which is a lot more than budget.  But that's the way it goes.  Building a schionning.  Estimates are that I could have had the same boat built offshore in Asia for 30-40% cheaper.  At the time the quality of work was the main problem but these days they seem to have got their quality right up there.   


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#16 island time

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 04:08 PM

In my time in SE asia I look at, and spoke to owners of new builds. IMO if you are not there to supervise EVERYTHING, you wont get what you expected... 


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There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worth doing, as simply messing about in boats


#17 raz88

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 07:44 AM

What do people think about whether lifting side foils are going to start becoming a worthwhile modification to old frankenboats?  

 

We seem a long way off fully foiling as a)fixed keel creates too much drag and makes the boat too heavy and b)the tech/power required to keep things level once on foils is difficult to organise.

 

but, surely there's a future in adding boards out the side to provide additional lift while heeled, in the fashion of the vendee boats or the new figaro? if someone could figure out how to make them properly retractable/removable to eliminate the additional drag in light airs and mean you can still keep your boat in a standard marina berth then surely they'd be a performance boost?


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#18 Fish

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 08:19 AM

The new benetau Figaro is close to that.
I wouldn't have thought putting foils on a frackenboat was worth it, unless you are interested in techo proof of concept stuff, and not actually winning a race campaign or making good boat dollar investments.
Remember races are won on handicap. Taking say a Ross 930 and foiling it is going to get nailed on handicap.
Further, the engineering involved, you would be very very close to just going new build. Maybe take an old boat and nick the rig, motor, some deck hard wear etc. but if you start doing major mods to the hull then new build (even home build) sounds the way.
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#19 Fish

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 08:30 AM

Oh, and didn't a boat in Wellington try this a year or two back. Smallish racer tried some horizontal foils?
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#20 Knot Me... maybe

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 08:36 AM

Foiling has a long way to go before it's going to be anywhere close to mainstream.

 

I thought about going out that direction but any cost benefit couldn't be found, not even with binoculars. The hurdles were large not only from a design and build angle but all the peripheral stuff like parking, maintenance, Regs and more. Even if you did you'd end up being the freaky 30ft racing the 50fters and that would be a do OK or lose by a week situation depending on the weather.

 

Look at the racing the 'not quite usual' boats get i.e the Overloads, canters and so on, it's not good hence you see few leave their berths and those that do tend to be heading for a ship after being sold offshore. The NZ racing scene as much as it talks a big game it is not a fan of 'unusual'. Maybe if someone built a fleet and dropped them in at once it maybe the catalyst to build off but doing a one off does put you on the fringe and a fringe that often is not treated well.

 

Or maybe develop races that these sorts of boats would be good for which then may start some design changes and tweaking. But again trying to get races like that up and running is also not easy if even possible. I've been hunting for a big distance race for a few years and there are bugger all and the few that are there are designed and set up for fast 50fters not a range of boats in a range of configurations. I can't find a thing for smaller boats bar a organised rally to Aussie and a passing side thought sort of a semi race for big AWB graders you can get dumped in....then I'd suggest history shows your quickly forgotten about. 

 

Disappointing a country that once rules the waves due to it's get out there, knock up a mates cunning design in the back shed and then take it all to the wet stuff then the world, mainly in the 30 - late 30ft range, now actively is working against that very thing happening in the future. That suppression of what NZ was world beaters at and was a large part of its sailing culture coincided with a sudden drop of new people coming into the sport, the death of NZ yacht builders, decreasing big races and decreasing fleets.

 

As much as I try I can't see the future improving. All I see is a growth in AWB's that sail non-extra divisions and a pile of older boats slowing disappearing to due to excessive costs and bullshit regulations.... and the lack of enough things to incentivise people to put some yards into improving them.

 

NZ's boating future is very much in 6.1 to 8mt tinnies with big f*ck off outboards on the back, yachts don't feature.


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