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Bitcoin; When's it going tits up?


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#21 Island Time

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 08:45 PM

OK, merchants that accept it for payment include PWC -

 

In 2015, the number of merchants accepting bitcoin exceeded 100,000.[13] Instead of 2–3% typically imposed by credit cardprocessors, merchants accepting bitcoins often pay fees under 2%, down to 0%.[100] Firms that accepted payments in bitcoin as of December 2014 included PayPal,[101] Microsoft,[102] Dell,[103] and Newegg.[104] In November 2017 PwC accepted bitcoin at its Hong Kong office in exchange for providing advisory services to local companies who are specialists in blockchain technology and cryptocurrencies, the first time any Big Four accounting firm accepted the cryptocurrency as payment.[105] [106]

 

 

Heaps more since then.  I'll see what I can find on governments...


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#22 Island Time

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 08:51 PM

Native, youd be mistaken, see;

http://bigthink.com/...ow-legal-tender


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#23 native

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Posted 18 December 2017 - 10:22 PM

Bitcoin can be accepted as payment in the same way people trade tulip bulbs, but it does not make it a financial instrument, it is a commodity and deflationary in the long term. I think you will find that it is not legal tender anywhere despite that article.


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#24 Sabre

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 05:59 AM

I can't bring myself to trust some imaginary, fairyland, cyberspace, crypto currency that has a very unstable and volatile value based on speculation. It may have some positives but I see it as more as just another tool for clever people to fleece less clever people.

Is there anything to stop Government's banning it? I know it is supposed to be hard/impossible to counterfeit but what if someone manages to? Or creates a virus that destroys it?
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#25 native

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 06:39 AM

I think the idea of bitcoin has appeal, but in the same way as the goldbugs want to go back to the gold standard . It has many problems, not the least being that there is no issuer who will ultimately accept it as their liability. If you take a dollar to the bank they have to accept it, the govt has to accept it as payment for tax. So a dollar is always worth a dollar, (except for inflation of course). A bitcoin on the other hand is not redeemable to anyone except someone who is willing to accept it, much like trading coloured stones or coupons there is no ultimate issuer who will give you one bitcoins worth of value.

 

I can see many advantages in the ease of payment but that's about it. 

 

Step back an look at it, if it was a currency then what suddenly makes it worth 20,000? Has that ever happened with the USD, the short answer is no. Money traders bet on differences, but not on the note itself.

 

The true value of bitcoin is zero but thats not going to stop some people making huge money out of it- just like tulips!


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#26 Ed

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 07:19 AM

I can't bring myself to trust some imaginary, fairyland, cyberspace, crypto currency that has a very unstable and volatile value based on speculation. It may have some positives but I see it as more as just another tool for clever people to fleece less clever people.

 

 

Same could be said for any Fiat currency including ours, its just not quite as volaitle (apart from GFC, Brexit, Govt medelling, hyperinflation.....)


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#27 Island Time

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 08:38 AM

Bitcoin can be accepted as payment in the same way people trade tulip bulbs, but it does not make it a financial instrument, it is a commodity and deflationary in the long term. I think you will find that it is not legal tender anywhere despite that article.

OK, How about this one;

https://www.cnbc.com...d-by-japan.html

and 

https://exbino.com/b...a-legal-tender/

comprehensive list here

https://www.bitcoinm...ion-by-country/

 

ALL currency is a confidence issue. Saying someone must be ultimately responsible for it is, IMO, naive. Any organisation can fail, including governments and countries. 


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#28 Sabre

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 08:56 AM

 
ALL currency is a confidence issue. Saying someone must be ultimately responsible for it is, IMO, naive. Any organisation can fail, including governments and countries.

And to my way of thinking it is hard to have confidence in a currency that is clearly being driven by many many many speculators hoping to make a quick buck. How can something that was worth next to nothing a few years ago now be worth so much? And I use the word 'something' loosely because it actually isn't anything. If it's value was stable and more relatable to existing currencies then I would have more confidence in it but to me it has Ponzi scheme written all over it
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#29 tuffyluffy

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 09:45 AM

 

ALL currency is a confidence issue. 

 

Correct and this is what the blockchain tries to address - its the public ledger that verifies the traders trust-worthiness based on previous transactions and hence enables confidence. Confidence and trustworthiness are the enablers to this tech currency and once its successfully addressed, the general public will embrace it.

 

I have little doubt that crypto currencies will be a powerful currency in the future once this initial hysteria dies down and the teething issues (trust, speed, fluctuating value) are sorted out. 

 

We're all now confident in cyber transacting (eftpos, online banking etc) so the natural next step is cutting out the middlemen ie banks, once we have confidence in a new currency. 

 

Crypto currencies have the potential to do to banking what Uber/AirBnB/Facebook et al have done to their respected industries and hence why the banks are paying a lot of attention to it.


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#30 native

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 09:49 AM

OK, How about this one;

https://www.cnbc.com...d-by-japan.html

and 

https://exbino.com/b...a-legal-tender/

comprehensive list here

https://www.bitcoinm...ion-by-country/

 

ALL currency is a confidence issue. Saying someone must be ultimately responsible for it is, IMO, naive. Any organisation can fail, including governments and countries. 

 

Japan is saying it is a legal payment method, so are the Aussies, but ithats about legitimising it as a method of transactiont. It is still not government issued money and everything I have said remains true.

 

This is like the laws of physics, you cannot defy the law of gravity and bitcoin is not money- its a commodity.  Gold is not money it is a commodity, it could be money again and bitcoin could also be money but not a very good one as far as govts are concerned. Even with gold coins, when it was money, it was the denomination that was the important part despite the fact it could be melted and sold in and of itself, the issuer- King Henry or whoever would accept it as payment for tax and until a govt accepts it directly as payment  for tax then its a long way of from being money.


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