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#21 Knot Me... maybe

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 11:29 AM

When I was sussing I used a few plotters out their in it and found cockpit mounted touchscreens a huge pain in the arse in wet and waves, smaller the boat the bigger pain they were. I used a big name, real big, plotter on a small boat in the wet and it was touch screen only. It was considerably less use than having an orgy with 3 elephants in your cockpit, in fact I think it made it's owner lazier and more stupid, which means more dangerous to him and those around him, that need to be the case.

 

So one of the 3 top requirements on purchasing one was it had to have buttons and knobs.


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#22 Willow

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 11:44 AM

Thanks IT will check it out.
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Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

Theodore Roosevelt

 


#23 Addem

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 12:43 PM

Addem, I can help with both those electronic issues if you like? Send me an email, PM, or call on 0221539176

 

Both the older Raymarine AND B&G touch screens had issues with the touch screens in rain. They have both improved, but again, IMO, the B&G is the better unit in this regard.

B&G now have specific software that "detects" the difference between water and a real touch ( tested on the Vendee globe and volvo boats) , plus, on the Zeus 3 models, the ability to lock the touch screen completely and use the dial and buttons only if you wish. Just remember that the B&G stuff is actually designed for yachts, with a dedicated sailing design team, and the raymarine stuff is designed for power vessels (by FAR the biggest market), with yachting facilities built in as an afterthought.

 

Willow, which B&G unit do you have? Is it on the latest firmware?

 

Masthead Tricolor Lamps. I have, in stock, what I firmly believe to be the best tricolors available. Small, light, meets colregs for vessels <24m , auto on/off, with anchor light and emergency strobe. Draw is 0.15a at 12v.... Price is competitive, $450 incl GST and delivery free to any Crew.org member  

Cheers IT.  Bazza will make contact so you and he can talk techie.


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#24 Knot Me... maybe

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 04:43 PM

Someone just told me you can buy the stuff (not all but some type/s) you put on the screens of cellphones to make them last longer and if you put that on your touch screen it will make it less twitchy for wet fingers.

 

No idea if that's true or not but stranger stuff has happened so maybe .........


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#25 Island Time

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 06:33 PM

OK, back to the original topic - and this is NO reflection on the Guys on Katana, who did a good job and got out of a difficult situation with the boat and themselves intact.

 

There is a learning opportunity for us all here...

1stly, I'd like to state I've never lost a rig -however, I've thought about it quite a bit. The 5 P's come in to play here (proper planning prevents piss poor performance)

 

This is my take;

 

Priorities

  1. is everyone still aboard?
  2. Are they OK?
  3. DONT start the engine (shrouds and halyards etc in the water)!
  4. Is a Pan Pan or Mayday warranted? (Missing/injured crew, boat condition, incl position, sea room, currents and tides etc) 
  5. Are there other vessels nearby that may be a collision risk, and can they see us? radio? Lights? AIS?
  6. Cutting rigging away, or punching the pins, is going to be required. I've always understood you do the sides first - the leeward shrouds can keep the rig under the boat (windward probably broken already?) - so windward ones 1st, then leeward, then backstay, and any sheets etc... Forestay last! This is because the boat will use the rig as a sea anchor, and turn to weather. Loose lines etc will stream out behind (to weather) of the rig as the boat drifts slowly down wind. At this stage you are still connected to the rig, in case you need anything from it for a jury rig etc. If you have time (sea room etc) the boat is hove to, you can rest, wait till daylight etc.
  7. Make a decision about the next step - ditch the rig, motor home, recover the biggest bits and sails, make a jury rig, sail home, whatever.

anyone have anything to add? Agree/disagree, whatever, discussion helps the rest of us who may be in this position at some time in the future.


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There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worth doing, as simply messing about in boats


#26 Knot Me... maybe

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 09:04 PM


This is my take;

 

Priorities

  1. is everyone still aboard?
  2. Are they OK? Here you may want to assign tasks if people are hurt i.e. someone administer First Aid while other/s susses the boat/clears the decks. No point fixing a broken leg just in time for them and you to drown.
  3. DONT start the engine (shrouds and halyards etc in the water)!
  4. Is a Pan Pan or Mayday warranted? (Missing/injured crew, boat condition, incl position, sea room, currents and tides etc) 
  5. Are there other vessels nearby that may be a collision risk, and can they see us? radio? Lights? AIS? White flare (white being a 'I'm here' not a distress colour)
  6. Cutting rigging away, or punching the pins, is going to be required. I've always understood you do the sides first - the leeward shrouds can keep the rig under the boat (windward probably broken already?) - so windward ones 1st, then leeward, then backstay, and any sheets etc... Forestay last! This is because the boat will use the rig as a sea anchor, and turn to weather. Loose lines etc will stream out behind (to weather) of the rig as the boat drifts slowly down wind. At this stage you are still connected to the rig, in case you need anything from it for a jury rig etc. If you have time (sea room etc) the boat is hove to, you can rest, wait till daylight etc. Watch out for the mast base to flick upwards or sideways fast if most of it is hanging over the side and ropes/wires grabbing ankles on the way past.
  7. Make a decision about the next step - ditch the rig, motor home, recover the biggest bits and sails, make a jury rig, sail home, whatever.
  8. Communicate with someone. If someone saw you in strife or suddenly disappear then rang for help who knows what they may tell CG, Police or whomever, which then may spark a large SAR call out, some upset not knowing what's going on Family/s, Race control (who are human and do care about their fleet) putting safety plans into action and other stuff. While no one would begrudge being called out, it would be best that if they weren't needed they knew that so were ready for something they maybe needed for. And who wants to walk in at home after that to then get their lights punched out by a angry Wa, knot me that's for sure.

Once home happy and healthy have a team debrief to see what can be learnt and what can be tuned to stop it happening again or make the aftermath better.  If you come up with some good sh*t tell others, spread the word.

 

In aviation there is a very common saying 'Aviate, Navigate, Communicate'.

Aviate - before all else keep the aircraft flying or you die. Then Navigate as in what do you need to do and make happen to get you to a safe place, which may not necessarily be on the ground.....but usually would be. Once that's sorted tell people what's happening and your intentions so they are aware, can keep an eye on you and can be prepared if needed. I think that series makes as much sense on the water as it does in the sky.


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#27 RushMan

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 09:08 PM

Attached File  image.jpeg   303.64KB   3 downloads

I watched this rig get tangled from about 3 boats lengths away, Swan River Perth. Mark should have been left to port but a round up just before the mark meant they left it to starboard.... The heel of the boat meant the mark collected the rig just below the 1st spreader.

I swan across to help only to find No bolt cutters on board, hacksaw with rusty blade did the job. Hardest part was cutting the mainsail from the mark.

After securing the boat to the mark, we managed to get everything on board and motored home.
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#28 Island Time

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 09:15 PM

Ha Rushman, thats not what I was envisaging, but hey, boats do surprise us sometimes! Hard to plan for every eventuallity, but we try! Having the basic safety gear is a requirement, and that includes a few tools. My go to for rig removal is battery disc grinder with a cut off wheel. And a hacksaw, pin punches and bolt cutters...


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There is nothing, absolutely nothing, half so much worth doing, as simply messing about in boats


#29 Addem

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 11:51 AM

One of the things that I have been mulling since our encounter with the motor vessel in the channel is what other action we could have/should have taken to ensure we avoided a collision.  Not having thought through such a scenario in advance (apparent collision course, quite large vessel, narrow channel (although we were about 3 miles off the coast), large waves and troughs) our actions were not instinctive and we had no pre-prepared plan as to which course of action to take, other than expect the motor vessel to alter course to starboard.  

 

We were on port tack at the time and I am not sure what lights they could see of ours (when they were not in a trough) nor how we presented on their radar.   We could see their port light and two mast lights (so we assumed it was a big sucker) and they both were nearly in line with their port light so we assumed it was coming on to us from slightly to our starboard but likely to cross our bow and pass to port (each of us keeping to starboard), but it made no obvious course alteration.  We chose to hold our course (as the stand on vessel) with preparedness to radically bear away to starboard.  

 

Ultimately, they altered course to port when they were directly ahead and therefore crossing our bow, quite close, and we were about to radically bear away.  Their manoeuvre was made too close for comfort and the conditions and, in my view, inappropriately for avoidance of collision.  My guess is that because they left it so long to make this alteration they were expecting us to make the course alteration, or they didn't see us until the last moment.  In either of these cases I bet the skipper was packing himself, I certainly was.

 

The first thing I can think of is that I could have altered our course earlier (even though I didn't think it was our responsibility and was worried about changing our course without knowing their intentions.  I also could (should) also have called them on channel 16 to confirm that they had seen us and determined their intentions.

 

Any other ideas?

 

I know that in posting this I am exposing myself to a trial by forum, but am doing so as it is a real life learning situation that 

we can all benefit from analysing.  If i could work out how to post pictures I'd draw a diagram.


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#30 Willow

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 12:03 PM

In that situation AIS would probably have been beneficial. A large trawler would probably be equipped with a transponder and as you found out it is all very well being able to spot the vessel but at night it can be very difficult to ascertain it's course speed and heading.

Another option if you have time is to establish radio contact to make sure they can see you. As stand on vessel you responsibility is to maintain course until it becomes obvious the other vessel is not going to give way.


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Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

Theodore Roosevelt

 





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