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Go on Nats, pick Collins as your leader...I dare you.


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#11 Zozza

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 03:07 PM

I'm surprise Mike Hosking hasn't put his hat in the ring


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#12 Knot Me... maybe

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 03:28 PM

And given you don't know what facebook is yet, I can understand a little how you've come to that view, and why your note picking up on the generational shift going on in politics.

Nothing to miss there fella as what you think your seeing you didn't. But I can understand why so many need to think that.
 
Labour changed nothing bar the 'face' of the party, all they did was change one person. If the generational shift is happening that's the only reason why it would be. Quite frankly that does show that whatever generation you're on about is not at all concerned with what pollies actually do but are very focused on what they look like. So if anything it's not a shift to 'generational' more than it is a shift to 'shallow'.

 

If a generational shift is happening why did the old pale stale male Natz vote collapse? It increased, all be it tiny, from the previous election.

 

If it is a generational shift why did the preliminary stats from the election show there was no youthquake or even close.
 
The generational shift term is marketing, not real. What you saw was pollies pitting generation against generation in an effort to gain power at any cost and in doing so tried to claim shifts and all the crap they do in election campaigns. You have fallen for more cunning marketing. But as that marketing knows you far better than you know yourself it's both understandable and excusable.

So there is nothing to suggest it is a generational change, bar the pollies spin, but there is a lot to suggest it was simply an election that many focused on personality over policy, pretty over substance. Is that good or bad?? Having not been down the personality route before I suppose NZ will just have to wait and see.
 

I know Facebook, that's a community of people that thinks centuries old marble willy (Davids) is offensive as is breast feeding so removes then but leaves up videos of 12 year old girls committing suicide and other equally despicable snuff movies. Facebook has also been named more than once as a major contributor to suicides. What sort of person would want to be part of a community that must be so seriously fucked in the head it's into extreme sicko sh*t like that?


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#13 harrytom

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 03:36 PM

I for one would back Judith Collins and for deputy ??there lies my problem. Yes National will get in 2020

Winnie will retire.

Ardern(forgotten her name already) is calling for the backing of a new ttpa,yet was against national on ttpa matters. Stuart Nash is backing down of onboard cameras on commercial fishing vessels,so dumping will continue. There is a whole heap of taxes coming in shortly that labour/greens want and are putting pressure on loacal councils to enforce such issues,congestion taxes etc

 

What did Judith do so wrong??shje stood on a couple of National party heads toes and fell out of favour.


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#14 Fish

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 03:48 PM

I'm surprise Mike Hosking hasn't put his hat in the ring

He would be a serious contender, just needs to be a sitting MP already...


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#15 Black Panther

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 03:48 PM

I'm surprise Mike Hosking hasn't put his hat in the ring



He's still wiping his chin.
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“If we don’t change our direction, we will end up where we are headed.”

 


#16 Sabre

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 03:56 PM

1jOU4D1.jpg
"Jacinta believe me Winstone is this big".

She would know given that Winston f#*cked the whole National cabinet good and proper
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#17 native

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 04:50 PM

History has a way appearing to not happen when its happening and only really becomes  history when its viewed from a distance, like it or not Jacinda Adern had the smarts to form a govt and the old reactionary toffs from the National party could not because they  burnt all their bridges.  The sore losers who are stuck in the past and whining about how National won the majority are revealing Nationals primary weakness which is a sense of entitlement or the "born to rule" problem. That and the fact the world has changed to MMP duh! FPP was old skool and the dinosaurs like KM are showing their age by simply not recognising the moment for what it is.

 

I still find it humorous that people think national are fiscal genius's- thats the problem right there.


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#18 Myjane

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 05:38 PM

If she makes it it will be the last you see national back in for many a year
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#19 Fish

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 07:26 PM

Labour changed nothing bar the 'face' of the party, all they did was change one person. If the generational shift is happening that's the only reason why it would be. Quite frankly that does show that whatever generation you're on about is not at all concerned with what pollies actually do but are very focused on what they look like. So if anything it's not a shift to 'generational' more than it is a shift to 'shallow'.

 

If a generational shift is happening why did the old pale stale male Natz vote collapse? It increased, all be it tiny, from the previous election.

 

If it is a generational shift why did the preliminary stats from the election show there was no youthquake or even close.
 
The generational shift term is marketing, not real. What you saw was pollies pitting generation against generation in an effort to gain power at any cost and in doing so tried to claim shifts and all the crap they do in election campaigns. You have fallen for more cunning marketing. But as that marketing knows you far better than you know yourself it's both understandable and excusable.

So there is nothing to suggest it is a generational change, bar the pollies spin, but there is a lot to suggest it was simply an election that many focused on personality over policy, pretty over substance. Is that good or bad?? Having not been down the personality route before I suppose NZ will just have to wait and see.
 

I know Facebook, that's a community of people that thinks centuries old marble willy (Davids) is offensive as is breast feeding so removes then but leaves up videos of 12 year old girls committing suicide and other equally despicable snuff movies. Facebook has also been named more than once as a major contributor to suicides. What sort of person would want to be part of a community that must be so seriously fucked in the head it's into extreme sicko sh*t like that?

I'm not going to try and change your political view KM, like they say, you can't teach an old dog new tricks, but I think it s a bit naive to think personality doesn't play any role in politics.

And I note, not for the first time, the slightly underhand reference to so and so being "attractive", its not that, but referring to that demonstrates further the lack of basic insight as to what has gone on, and what is going on now.

 

People (voters) look to political leaders for various things. Very rarely do people measure up all of the actual policies and decide which they like the most. Some do, but to think everyone does that is some sort of fictional utopia. People tend to look for inspiration, or aspirational elements, something they see in a prospective leader that they aspire to or want to be like themselves. 

The comments about the Labour party changing nothing (policies) but the leader and 'winning' only because of that entirely overlooks and undervalues what John Key brought to the National Party, what 9 odd years ago.

John Key is widely recognised as one of the most charismatic political leaders NZ has had. In short, people saw an affable guy (relate-able) that that was very successful in business, a self made millionaire, with the "house, boat and bach" , the bach in Omaha, the holiday house in Hawai, the golf games with the President of the US of A (while on holiday). A lot of people aspire to be like that, to be that person. Especially in Nationals traditional core voter base such as small business owners working hard to be successful, business leaders, people with money wanting more money and influence, like JK.

 

Now we've got the fresh young intelligent female, that can demonstrate to all that you can have a baby and a career (that point wont resonate much to the average white male on this forum, but in certain non-male demographics that will resonate very strongly). The reason Labour couldn't get any traction with Andrew Little is that no one wanted to be like Andrew Little, he looked like a tired, hard working (over worked) guy struggling to get his point across at the back end of his career. Jacinda looks like a smart, intelligent and successful individual, and attracts a strong aspirational aspect around that.

 

The same formula worked with JK for National, the same formula is working for Labour with JA.

 

On the generational change thing, we've had the same old same old in for the last nine years. Nine years ago they were a breath of fresh air, new ideas and new faces. They're just stale now and dragging around baggage. 

To get back into power, National need to re-invent themselves. That will start with the leader and permeate down through the cabinet, policies and narrative. They do have a good amount of support and weren't too far off on the numbers, but now the other lot are in, they have the power and the influence, and now National are on the outer and lack the momentum.

 

To go on about National having the most votes completely misses the whole nature of MMP. Its outdated thinking of FPP. The largest block of voters with the most similar policies is what won, not one single parties vote. National had 3 coalition partners in the last govt, a 4 -way coalition. I still haven't heard anyone name those parties?

 

And as for Facebook, I don't disagree with you on the shortcomings you sight, but they sound more like a reflection of our society than anything specific to facebook. My point is that despite those shortcomings (and a whole lot more) facebook has still managed to invade almost every aspect of our life, businesses, schools, sports clubs, assimilation of news, influence shopping and purchases etc etc etc. I don't like facebook, but I am sure as hell interested how it has managed to weld so much power so quickly and pervade so deeply into our society.

 

Times are changing, and quicker than we realise I think. Feel free to grumble about aspects of the last election, but moving forward the political landscape wont look anything like the last election again.


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#20 Myjane

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 08:37 PM

I’ve got no time for the rottwella with balls She’s trouble and full of promises , labour’s fame was the young voters as She’s young , experiencing , go getter. ,have ago attude , like a huge majority of the voters they had , but they will broke the country giving away money to the needy, and taxing the middle to upper class who are trying with there qualifications to succeed. Winston’s running around giving money to all his sport clubs and hobbies , now National after keys jumped has gone right out the window , but his busines head kept things on the upper and he had business followers who give us the jobs we survive on , it will be interesting . I know I will get shot down in flames , but the new generations on the move want something more and its all cantered around them selfs
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