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Time for regulation


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#11 Steve Pope

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 12:59 PM

Every mainstream medication that has been withdrawn by the FDA was once approved by the FDA.  Viagra started off as a heart medication, that being said Snake oil salesmen have been there from time immemorial, the term "natural remedy" is very seductive.


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#12 Fish

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 01:06 PM

Its yet another kitchen sink concoction sold to the gullible, unregulated quackery much like chiropractic treatment and acupuncture etc etc etc.

Apparently some batshit crazy people have got it into their head that grown adults can make decisions for themselves. We must protect these people from themselves.

The risk of rowing ashore in a dingy without a life jacket is far to great, especially for these grown adults with all this sailing experience. We really need more laws, tougher enforcement and harsher penalties for everyone that think they can make a decision for themselves.


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#13 lateral

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 01:15 PM

"the term "natural remedy" is very seductive."

 

Specially when the "natural" substitute is touted as a precurser or imitant that supposedly doesnt have the nasty side effects but does the same job.


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#14 Dambo

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 01:55 PM

Personally I'd like to see greater control put on Paracetamol - this nasty substance is responsible for a disproportional number of deaths (especially within my client group) every year. 

 

But then there's also alcohol which causes more damage in NZ then pretty much any other substance that Joe Public can purchase across the counter (legal or illegal counter)

 

...and I like rum.  And single malt scotch.  And cold beer on a hot day... 


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#15 native

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 01:57 PM

Apparently some batshit crazy people have got it into their head that grown adults can make decisions for themselves. We must protect these people from themselves.

The risk of rowing ashore in a dingy without a life jacket is far to great, especially for these grown adults with all this sailing experience. We really need more laws, tougher enforcement and harsher penalties for everyone that think they can make a decision for themselves.

 

Not really comparable with the lifejacket wearing argument, more like if you buy a lifejacket based on misleading advertising. Natural health products have largely slipped under the radar in the name of "freedom" but would you accept the same laissez faire attitude towards prescription pharmaceuticals?  


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#16 idlerboat

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 02:24 PM

If you have a spare 10 minutes, this sums up "natural" medicine.

Its  very funny "beat poetry" by Tim Minchin.

 

 


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There is only two substances..stuff and glue...and even glue is made of stuff,,
quote."MD"

#17 armchairadmiral

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 03:02 PM

Some of this thread is true. Some isn't. The BIG Boys of pharmaceutical companys  (Bertarelli et al ) would like to control natural remedies as well as the pills they peddle. i.e. wind up the price. Controls / regulation can be a two edged sword


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The ultimate result of shielding men from folly is to fill the world with fools.  Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher 1820 - 1903


#18 Fish

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 03:13 PM

Not really comparable with the lifejacket wearing argument, more like if you buy a lifejacket based on misleading advertising. Natural health products have largely slipped under the radar in the name of "freedom" but would you accept the same laissez faire attitude towards prescription pharmaceuticals?  

I was responding to your comments about "unregulated quakery much like chiropratic treatment acupuncture etc etc etc" - the point there is that you may not be interested in them, but just because you don't like them, you shouldn't be able to prevent me from making a decision to use them or not.

 

The original post refers to a dietary supplement that has been associated with liver issues. There is a wide, wide range of other products, especially regulated and unregulated medicines that also cause liver issues. The most notably (I think) is nurofen, which is readily available, often used without really thinking, is often used over prolonged periods, and does cause liver issues, and not a lot of people would know that.

 

Panadol can have significant issues also. You can buy that at petrol stations and diaries. Those two products are happily provided by big pharma. They don't care for competition much.

 

On the life jacket analogy, there are already clear laws around misleading advertising. Generally most of these products use terms such as "may" instead of "will", then it is up to the consumer to make their own decision.

 

Given the extent of the dietary supplements industry (very widely used), the low incidence of actual harm, and the costs to benefits of regulating this, I really don't see the point. If you equate dietary supplements to food products, there are a number of food products that will make people seriously ill, depending on their circumstances (gluten intolerance, celeacs, alergies) but also eating certain foods in excess can also lead to all sorts of health issues. Mercury poisoning for example. Alcohol is the most obvious for harm from over consumption. The regulation of that is limited to selling it to people deemed old enough to make their own decisions....

 

Too much vitamin C or magnesium will give you the shits, any of the fat soluble vitamins taken in excess can become toxic quickly. There is a requirement for people to understand what they are eating and exercise judgement, the same applies to dietary supplements. Doesn't need regulation.


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#19 Fish

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 03:45 PM

In terms of the effectiveness of regulation, New Zealand's water supplies are heavily regulated.

 

Despite that heavy regulation, water supplies in New Zealand have recently been attributed to the death of three people and left 16 people with ongoing debilitating auto-immune conditions.

 

I don't have a lot of confidence in the ability of regulators to keep me safe. I'm not seeing a compelling argument for the regulation of dietary supplements.


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#20 erice

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 04:09 PM

do get frustrated when people say

 

"but it's natural!"

 

like it can't be harmful

 

cyanide is natural

 

as is botulism 

 

the plague

 

and getting punched in the head 


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