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Time for regulation


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#21 wheels

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 04:14 PM

 

Given the extent of the dietary supplements industry (very widely used), the low incidence of actual harm, 

This is the problem. The medical world believe there is a lot more harm being done than is thought. And there are most certainly some very wild claims of benefits with many supplements that are simply not true. Omega 3 is one. I know of one company that is making the most outrageously wild claims of what their product can do. Sadly they have a couple of Drs on their team that are backing the claims.

 

gluten intolerance, celeacs

And there's another one. Celiac disease is in fact very rare and 99% of people that think they have a gluten intolerance actually do not.

 


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#22 Fish

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 04:36 PM

And there's another one. Celiac disease is in fact very rare and 99% of people that think they have a gluten intolerance actually do not.

Infact most people that are sick aren't actually sick. It's just all in their head. They just need a positive attitude and a can of harden up.


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#23 wheels

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 04:39 PM

 

Despite that heavy regulation, water supplies in New Zealand have recently been attributed to the death of three people and left 16 people with ongoing debilitating auto-immune conditions.

Have you guys heard of the issues with the Woodbourne and Ohakea Water supplies??

Many years ago, a fire fighting foam was used by the RNZAF fire fighters during practice. Apparently there was some chemical in the Foam that has seeped into the ground. This then worked it's way down into the Ground water.
       A Farmer near by lost a heap of Cattle and there was a massive legal battle trying to put blame on the RNZAF. It's the only place this chemical could have come from. He lost the court battle because the judge said there was no evidence to support that the chemical could travel from the Base to his place where he drew water from that the cattle drank. The Judge said he had to be able to prove the chemical could travel that far. That was simply not possible. It cost the guy ruffly 1.6mill  in the end and he lost.
        The Particular Foam had been banned from use in the US and other Countries and yet the RNZAF continued to use it for several more years. I wouldn't mind betting they had a stock pile of it to get rid of. They eventually stopped using it in the late nineties I think it was.
    Then for some reason, tests were done back in 2015 on the Aquifers of both Woodbourne and Ohakea and guess what they found. Yep, they found this particular chemical in our drinking water. But what was worse is that they kept this finding under wraps till just this year. Yep, they knew the water was contaminated and kept it quiet.
      It somehow became public either late last year or early this year and it is considered so serious, that they have stopped the use of the wells and every Family is being supplied bottled water. Large tanks have been installed at Woodbourne (I assume they have done similar at Ohakea) and they are filling these tanks by Truck.

For the last 25years, I have been drinking this stuff.

       The Council are saying there is nothing to worry about with Blenheims water supply. But I am pretty sure the same aquifer runs under the Town. So how can it not be?
I don't know what the Chemical is yet. I would like to know. I also want to know what it can do and if any of my health problems could be related. I don't expect that I could do anything about that, but it would be nice to know if they are related.


 


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#24 Steve Pope

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Posted 20 February 2018 - 05:01 PM

Local authorities, with the Govt as a back up generally manage to obfuscate, confuse, deny and generally make opposing them as hard as possible.

Opua oyster farmers know this only too well, most were put out of business and left with a huge cleanup bills after sewerage polution (similar to that has hit Auckland beaches) infected their oyster leases every time it rained. everyone except the council believed the problem came from upstream. Of course the Kawa Kawa treatment plant was upstream too. Not us said the council, probably yachties said they.  Strangely the plant was rebuilt / upgraded after the farmers went bung. It was never proved that it came from there, as every attempt was met with goal post shifting and lawyers at every attempt to get too the bottom of the problem. Said treatment plant is being upgraded as we write.

The Kaipara District Council debacle was one that almost got away, to the extent that they (Govt) passed a law change that made legal that that wasn't legal before, and they use your money to beat you!


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#25 Chloe

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 06:10 AM

Here is a start Wheels.

 

banned, toxic firefighting foam. PFOS and PFOA chemicals were ingredients used in firefighting foams,


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#26 Chloe

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 06:25 AM

Some more reading for you wheels.

 

http://www.abc.net.a...dy-done/7877084


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#27 lateral

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 10:09 AM

Infact most people that are sick aren't actually sick. It's just all in their head. They just need a positive attitude and a can of harden up.

 

:thumbup: Haha!  Can you sell me a can? Don't care if it isn't double blind tested.


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#28 John B

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 10:21 AM

 It always amuses me  this division between 'medical' and 'natural'. A lot of medical was natural when it started, like that bloke hammering out willow bark on a rock by the river. Licking up the juice for his toothache.


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#29 Priscilla II

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 11:33 AM

Brother in law diagnosed with T cell Leukemia said he regretted going to the doctors as they only gave him bad news.

He passed away many moons ago and when I repeated his comment to my doctor she rolled around on the floor just about pissing herself with laughter.


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#30 rjp

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 11:40 AM

 It always amuses me  this division between 'medical' and 'natural'. A lot of medical was natural when it started, like that bloke hammering out willow bark on a rock by the river. Licking up the juice for his toothache.

 

You are quite correct that many, if not most, current medical active pharmaceutical ingredients (API's) were or are slightly modified versions of naturally occurring compounds.  The difference is in the level of proof.  Maybe we should think of these as 'statistically proven to have the named effect' vs 'someone is guessing that this may have some use possibly'.  To get registered a new product has had to be proven to have an effect that is at least as good at solving the medical problem as the currently used alternative.  This is done at multiple independent sites and each has to have the same outcome.  The product can not cause more harm (negative side-effects, reduced survival etc than what is currently being used or results from no treatment).  Almost as important is that in order to sell a pharmaceutical the manufacturer has to monitor any and all adverse events associated with the therapeutic.  If any occur the use will be restricted or the product pulled.  None of that proof of positive effect or monitoring of side-effects is required for a nutraceutical.  Likewise manufacturing quality control and liabilities are lacking.

 

As has been noted a registered product has a very tightly defined manufacturing process and controlled set of ingredients in defined amounts.  In the absence of that information a product can't get registered/sold.  This continues to be one of the unspoken issues around medical marijuana.  Last time I examined it over more than 400 chemicals had been identified in pot smoke.  Not only had most not been studied for biological effect (they don't know what they do, or they are known as toxins so have not been studied for beneficial effects) but more importantly the ratios changed significantly depending on light, temperature, humidity, and nutrients used in growing the plants (clonal plants . So how can anyone say All Pot is good.  Yes, I have no doubt some of the compounds are good for condition A while others are better for condition B.  Thats all good but if plant X has different ratios than plant Y then how can a consumer/a prescriber/a retailer know if what is being bought or used will help a particular patient situation. A regulator/physician who has signed on to the Hippocratic Oath (Do No Harm) is hamstrung because they just don't know what is actually being administered and if it will help or harm. 

 

One other reason NZ has so many of these nutraceuticals and issues around them is that NZ is one of only 4 countries in the world that allow direct-to-consumer medical advertising (Hong Kong 1950's, NZ in 1981, US in 1985, Brazil in late 2000's).  While nutraceuticals are not 'medical' products and can't make claims of effect the flow on here has been a huge rise in their advertising (purportedly to compete with mass-market advertising of registered medical items),  their use and the whole naturopath industry.  Generous ACC/MoH subsidies of non-conventional medical practices has obviously also helped.

 

RP

 

 

By way of full disclosure I have spent 3 decades working in biomedical fields -originally as a scientist, later commercialising university inventions and then as a VC and now as a consultant to companies and investors.  The majority of projects have been regulated/registered products but there have been some nutraceuticals as well.


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