Island Time 1,235 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 Well, despite the issue (oil in the cooling water header tank) being, in about 95 % of cases, a head gasket, it seems mine was not After removing the head, having it skimmed, crack tested, valve guides etc done, new gasket and re-installed, the problem remains. So, here is my current thinking. For oil to be in the water, NOT water in the oil, the leak must be in the high pressure side of the oil line, where it exceeds the water pressure. Yes, this is a turbo, and I have considered that there could be a leak in the turbo, where there is also water and oil at pressure. However, the turbo on this motor is two distinct housings, they clamp together. Water is on one (exhaust side, for cooling) and oil in the Inlet side, also housing the impeller bearings. I think its extremely unlikely that oil is crossing this gap. I'm beginning to think it might be a crack in the block, between the oil gallery and the water jacket. If thats the case, that will finally be the end of this engine. So my plan is to go through the cooling system closely and see if I can figure out where the issue may be. If I cant find it externally, then I guess I have to remove the engine again and strip the sump and oil pump, then trace the gallery. If its a stuffed block, im in for a new motor. Dont know where the money will come from for that. Anyone have any ideas?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
muzled 140 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 Dont know where the money will come from for that. Anyone have any ideas?? Shane Jones's regional development fund? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,235 Posted May 7, 2018 Author Share Posted May 7, 2018 Huh, I wish! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jim s 34 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 Hmmm what a pity after such a nice job...I agree with the logic in your analysis so far but engines can be full of surprises so to make sure i'd set up an air pressure regulator to say 70psi or so and supply air to the oil pressure switch tapping (often 1/8 or 1/4 bsp even on metric engines) and observe for bubbles arriving in the header tank. you'll hear air hissing in the crankcase but if little bubbles start arriving in the header then the theory is sadly proven... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jim s 34 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 As a precaution during the above it would be a good idea to remove the oil filler just in case the breather struggles with the airflow and possibly motor over a bit afterwards to re-prime the oil pump... the tricky bit will be if it doesn't blow bubbles (more neurons needed if thats the case) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
w44vi 17 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 Do you have an oil cooler ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 Great idea jim s, but sadly that would not be possible, due to the fact that there are oil galleries that drain oil back to sump.You might get somewhere by blocking the cooling water in/out and then pressurizing that. However, cracks are usually very very small and will not allow through enough air to hear it. You would need to pressurise, then lock off and watch for pressure drop.Cracks in blocks are very rare IT. Usually they happen due to a major catastrophic issue. But one thing that can cause block issues is Cavitation corrosion. The place to look is the back of the waterpump. If that is a problem, it will be easy to spot. The metal will be clean and eaten away. I imagine being you, that the engine would be well maintained and would have had Coolant added. This usually stops that kind of issue, so for you, I personally would rule that out as a likely, but if you are really head scratching, it could be worth a look. Oil coolers as w44 says. They are common issues.Really sorry to hear about this. I know how you feel re cost too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,235 Posted May 7, 2018 Author Share Posted May 7, 2018 Yep, there is an oil cooler, but that’s oil / seawater not oil/ fresh so it can’t be that. Engine has always had inhibitor in it, except for 3 weeks when I had to run it seawater cooled in SE Asia while I got somewhere to get a new circulation pump. There was some very slight pitting on the head and almost nothing on the block when I had the head off, which is a sign of corrosion. There have been no real overheating issues or anything else that might have caused this that I’m aware of. I think Jim’s idea would work, lots of air would escape to the sump etc, but if the pressure side of the oil gallery was pressured with sufficient volume, it’s not air escape but bubbles in coolant I’d be looking for. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 If its a stuffed block, im in for a new motor. Dont know where the money will come from for that. Anyone have any ideas?? My financial plan for replacing my engine (which still goes well, but is a noisy and heavy 3 cylinder Izuzu) is to by Lotto tickets. Only the normal Lotto, not power ball. The cost of power ball is twice as much per line, and the chance of winning substantially less, like 1:10 less or worse. That and a normal first div Lotto win will be enough money, just enough to make life a tad more comfortable (i.e. new motor and main sail, and probably a dodger for the boat as well) but not too much to cause problems. I think winning $20 mil on power ball would be a major pain in the arse. Life would change substantially. Just working out what to do with the money would be a bit stressful, and I'm sure all of a sudden you'd have a few new 'friends' pop out of the woodwork - not to mention all the sobs stories looking for hand outs. Anyway, that is my plan for funding a new motor. Unfortunately I have to admit its not the most reliable financial plan to date. My kiwisaver is performing far better than my lotto account.... but I'm not allowed to use that for a new engine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jim s 34 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 I've used the "pressurize the oil system while the engine is stopped " idea previously to help fault-find a small newly rebuilt aero engine that had issues - it gave enough new info for the engine to be stripped down where it was found the reconditioner had left out a pressure blank in the block of all things... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 If its a stuffed block, im in for a new motor. Dont know where the money will come from for that. Anyone have any ideas?? On a slightly more practical note than trying to win lotto, don't forget that you own a sailing website that easily has NZ's highest demographic of boat owners that need to or are investigating re-powering middle aged yachts. Just a quick look at the comments on the "this weeks achievement" thread about your engine shows a couple of people seriously considering re-powers. This could create a not too bad value proposition of positive exposure for engine suppliers, i.e. a form of sponsorship, potentially in the form of discounts, items at cost etc. There are several fisho types that set up youtube channels and then receive gear and equipment in return for heavy branding and exposure. I'm sure the dollar value of sponsorship is dependent on the number of youtube subscribers or twitter followers etc. Just like the 'It-girls' that tweet how great the service is at some restaurant, or a great sale at some fashion store. You could be the 'IT-guy' of marine diesel engines Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John B 106 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 I don't know the answer but a ray of hope anyway. When my engine cooling woes started in october 16 it took me a few months to progressively go through 'everything' on the cooling side. A small amount of mayonnaise at the cap and an unknown but not oily sludge in the header tank was one of the issues at one time . Thats all gone now( holds hands in air) No mayonnaise , motor now runs too cool. No chance that something was astray on re fitting the head ... flipped head gasket? ( not knowing that particular motor) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Doh!. of course the oil cooler has Salt water. Silly me.In all my experience (which isn't huge mind you) I have never seen an "Oil/water gallery leak of some kind that has not pushed water back into the oil. When you shut down a hot engine, the water remains under pressure and the oil pressure ceases. So the water ends up leaking to the oil and then you find the tell tale signs of water in the oil.Did the old head gasket look like it was properly sealing IT? If that had lifted enough to allow oil to the water, then maybe some oil was in the cooling side and now it is back together and running again, it has flushed the oil through? Hey just a grab at straws because of the bad news it could be otherwise. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,235 Posted May 8, 2018 Author Share Posted May 8, 2018 On these engines, if you put the head gasket on upside down, you get no oil pressure - there is no hole through the head gasket for the oil gallery if its inverted. The old head gasket did not look like there was an obvious leak - but it was not perfect around the water galleries near the oil pressure gallery, and as it is a small leak only, I thought that would be it... I'm hoping wheels, what its showing now is only residue, and I'll clean it and see if it comes back before doing anything. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Fingers crossed for you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
southernman 73 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 I've got a very slow water leak that no one can find inc. the experts, does not loose any pressure over 24 hours, only thing I can see is possibly the water heater have just resealed all the joints on this unit and we will wait and see. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,235 Posted May 8, 2018 Author Share Posted May 8, 2018 Somtimes you can have a water loss into the exhaust, so it gets blown out an is very hard/impossible to locate - till its stripped... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
southernman 73 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Somtimes you can have a water loss into the exhaust, so it gets blown out an is very hard/impossible to locate - till its stripped... Hmm good idea I'll look into that one IT. Given this is the second time I've stripped the water heater and hoses and used locktite I'm a bit over it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 360 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 I’ve got a VP 2001T 43hp engine sitting in my shed if you want it IT Injector pump is stuffed and it was burning a little oil so we replaced it before the RNZ as didn’t want motor issues Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,235 Posted May 8, 2018 Author Share Posted May 8, 2018 Thanks Jon, I'll let you know when I finish this diag... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.