markm 30 Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 Titanic anyone? Nothing is unsinkable The iceberg seemed to be making an honest attempt ?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
idlerboat 116 Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 Built in float bags were quite common in the 70,s They often took the space under the sette seats and had their own gas bottles attached (Like a slightly larger version of a dive pony bottle) . I remember reading an American sailing mag in a dentist that advertised them I think they fell out of favour because of the amount of space they took up and the vigilance needed to make sure nothing was stacked on top of them. A serious fire on board would make the use of them a bit of a problem..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 The iceberg seemed to be making an honest attempt ?? I understand icebergs don't go to windward too well... (worse than a multihull apparently) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,211 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 The iceberg seemed to be making an honest attempt ?? Yep, but where is it now? Sunk, and dissolved in the ocean! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin McCready 83 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 Kirsty Johnson's experience with toxic misogyny in NZ. I'm sure none of these attitudes exist in this thread. https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/18-05-2018/confirmed-there-is-no-toxic-masculinity-in-new-zealand/ https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12053187 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 355 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 Don’t start talking about flares again ! One thing with your statement above is we don’t have the critical mass. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,566 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 If you want a generalised comment on sfety gear: too much has too short a life expectancy. Some is not appropriate for cruising vs racing. Some is not appropriate for short or single handing. Some has been superseded by technology. The list never grows shorter. It has reached the point where the expense and hassle is turning people away. Thereby undermining the original intention. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ex TL systems 63 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 And you can sail without cat one which means you can make all your own decisions about what you will carry which is what all the non nz boats that leave nz and return to the islands do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,566 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 I would love to see figures on the % of nz flagged boats leaving nz that required assistance vs foreign flagged Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vivaldi 53 Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 At this stage will be looking at end of June departing aus. Meister, did you end up buying Kick? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 On the subject of flares, the Yachting World Editorial form March 18 Apologies for the photo image "Time Expired? Do you carry flares onboard? If you sail offshore you probably do. And if you are planning to take part in an organised offshore event, own a UK flagged boat of 13.7 m or over, or a coded vessel, flare packs are mandatory. But should we really still be carrying flares? When the collision regulations were there was no better alternative. Today there are a myriad of safer, more reliable distress alerting devices and location aids: EPRIB's PLBs, AIS, DSC, VHF and devices such as Odeo's LED distress flares. Flares are a poor, potentially dangerous substitute for this armoury, and almost impossible to dispose of when out of date. Yachtsmen should no longer be compelled to carry them. Organisations such as the RNLI no longer use pyrotechnics and even the Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) itself no longer uses flares. The Royal Yachting Association is clear on the issue. Cruising manager Stuart Carruthers says: "We think making flares compulsory is barking mad. They're legalised firearms. We shouldn't be having to make a case to justify their removal, they should be justifying keeping them". So what is behind the resistance to change? Perhaps little more than inertia. but it is time for organisations such as the MCA and the IMO to change their rules." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Myjane 40 Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 Well Km your ready to go Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,211 Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 KM, Several of those WILL alert you of a distress nearby. The ais will The DSC will A VHF will, but better with DSC. Etc. But they must be on, as required by the colregs - you must keep watch by all available means. If you don't know how all this works, you've wasted tour 7k. RTFM. They are just as likely to save you as anyone else. They are very easy to use. The test circuit in an epirb is most certainly NOT just a bulb. They do a simple load test on the battery, and the light signals a successful test. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 I am anchored 50mts from Elaine. Can some one please tell me which of the above will alert me to Elaines imminent death? If you are 50 mts away, I'd like to think your eyes and ears would be working (assuming you are actually keeping a look out). If you are not keeping a lookout, i.e. not actually interested, then Elaines EPIRB or PLB will alert authorities who are interested. If you are interested but happen to be on the heads Elaine can use DSC to turn your DSC equipped VHF into a load car alarm alerting you to her distress. For your $7k of toys works properly, your AIS will show a giant red pulsating sore infection on your chart plotter, alerting you to the position of said distress. Noting that DSC will turn you VHF to channel 16 automatically, so you can listen to Mozart all day while fishing, and still hear her if she reverts to using the good old VHF. But I think you've missed the point, its about compulsion. That is compulsion to carry explosives, firearms and pyrotechnics. You are free to carry whatever you want. The argument is around "just cause you think its a good idea, why should I have to carry explosives, firearms and pyrotechnics?" And if you are worried about your PLB or EPIRB not working cause of the damp marine environment that lectronics don't like, how do you know your flare will work? Explosives like damp less than lectronics, and they don't have a test feature. Your logic is starting to fail on that point... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted May 19, 2018 Share Posted May 19, 2018 Anyway, lets look at some facts. I like facts, they are cold and hard and you can turn them over and have a good inspection of them, unlike conjecture and opinion.... The last three boating rescues prominent in the media: 1) The guy that relied on flares alone - spent three days and two nights drifting, almost died, was only saved because his ex-wife got pissy he hadn't returned daughter by allotted time 2) Single hander, offshore, boat sinking rapidly (Waimanu 2) - of all the luck a ship is passing while he is sinking rapidly, so shoots off his flares - YAY - but what happens? - ship steams over horizon... So he lets off his EPIRB, has a Charlie 130 overhead in less than an hr, has to put earplugs in cause of the noise and is rescued same day (within hours) buy some nice guys in an orange boat launched from their ship (even got to bring some gear with him) 3) Family of 6 have a whoopsy on a cat early one morning, in a spot not that far really from the guy who relied on flares alone. Family of 6 set off their EPIRB and use their VHF (no mention of flares). Have 3 rescue helicopters, a navy boat, the POAL pilot boat, 3 container ships and the coastguard all respond. Are rescued quickly and are being warmed up in Whangarei Hospital in about an hour (probably 2 hours max) So what safety equipment would you carry, the ones that work? or the other ones? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
muzled 140 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 That's too small a cross section to come to any valid conclusions. We'll need further funding to set up a longer running inquiry... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,211 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Ais and DSC are not compulsory carry for our boats. But if you have them, you are REQUIRED to use them. A lookout shall be kept by all means available... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 That's too small a cross section to come to any valid conclusions. We'll need further funding to set up a longer running inquiry... Yes, well... 2 examples of flares failing miserably, in the last couple of months (3 months?) and two examples of lectronics working just fine, and enabling fast and efficient rescues over the same time period, I can see how a heavy and cumbersome bureaucracy or govt departments may struggle to interpret that information, they may well need further funding (a nice trough of it) and a good long running investigation etc... I'd like to think nimble and agile free thinkers could move toward a conclusion on that type of hard facts, the type of nimble and agile free thinkers that often lead small business and captain industry, but I mean, it is tough to move with the times and to recognise and adapt to change sometimes. It is easy to just get stuck in your ways I guess... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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