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Protecting the inexperienced


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Over the weekend I came across a couple who are planning to leave for the islands this week.

I don't want to be a party spoiler but they appeared, and the boat appears to be very ill prepared.

(Eg no wind steering, one small solar panel, no apparent extra diesel tanks etc.)

They did not strike me as being very experienced either judging by the way they left their mooring.

Many people have done amazing trips with very little so it is possible, but I would hate for their luck to run out and I did nothing.

What to do??

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Leave them alone.

Nothing you mentioned raises any cause for alarm. You are applying your standards to them.

You don't need wind steering, solar panels are only a recent technological item, and certainly aren't a safety item. If they don't have a water maker, freezer, two fridges, air con and a hair drier I'm not sure what any of the relevance any of that is.

And how do you know what their diesel tankage was in the first place?

 

Long keeled boats can track perfectly straight without a hand on the rudder, and can be trimmed easier by adjusting the sails. Or you can bungy the tiller, or you can run a staysail backed and set up to the tiller. There are a large number of ways to steer a boat without a wind vane or an electrical AP. And if it were a long keel boat it could possibly explain issues getting off the mooring. Those long keel boats handle like pigs in close quarters. Excellent sea boats though.

 

They have to get CAT 1 to leave, which is a major hurdle in its own right. If they don't need CAT 1 to leave, it means they managed to make it here all by themselves anyway.

 

Certainly no need to be alerting the authorities Kevin.

111 Operator - "hi, some people are going sailing and their boat isn't set up exactly the same way mine is, infact I don't like their set up at all..."

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True, I agree, and thus my hesitation.

Certainly you don't need all the mod cons to go sailing. Knowing how to use a sextant might be a good alternative. and that I know they don't have.

But overall the look and feel is just not right, not to mention the timing of departure.

Just hope we don't need to fly our Orions, that's all.

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stop thinking Plato. You're a nice guy/girl judging by the way you approached this - but stop.

 

Get to know them, even talk to them about cat 1 rules as Kev suggested, but whatever you do discard his final solution  That is the Fun Police talking

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A difficult question and personally i think Plato is to be commended for showing concern for the wellbeing of a fellow yachtie.

Is it not so that in order to leave NZ waters in your own vessel, you need a customs clearance, and in order to obtain the neccessary clearances you need to show to the authorities your current Cat 1 certificate?

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Cat1 is a requirement for all NZ registered yachts leaving NZ. So if they were overseas registered then they may not, but otherwise they'll need it to clear customs.

 

I think another good question (and something else that demonstrates the level of lack of knowledge) is why are they going to the islands now? It's mid October, the cruising fleet is all about to head back to NZ to avoid the cyclones that start about November up there.

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If its an NZ vessel, they need CAT 1 to leave NZ, even as a cruiser, that is why Black Panther complains so much.

to get CAT 1, they need to engage an inspector that goes all over the boat, checks not only safety gear but systems (i.e. diesel tankage, charging) sail handling, construction and stability of the boat, mandated size of sails / storm sails, AND the competency of the skipper and crew.

 

If the boat is not fit to sail, they cant sail. If the boat is mint, but the skipper and crew are clueless, they can't sail. They can't clear customs without a CAT 1 certificate.

 

If it is a foreign boat they don't need CAT 1, but that means they've already sailed here, from at a minimum half way across the Pacific, so by definition are competent by the fact they made it.

 

Of course, if they are only going to the Bay of Islands, as opposed to the 'Islands', they may be complete idiots, and may have a bad trip, an unpleasant experience, or may need rescuing. Either way, you can't learn without doing, and experience is something you get right after you needed it most...

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“normalised unsafe behaviour” doesn't make you safe, if merely gives the illusion. Dunning-Kruger Effect.

 

If they are too stupid to listen to your friendly advice, why should my taxes pay for their rescue??

 

Dob 'em in I say. It's got nothing to do with fun police and everything to do with reporting irresponsible stupidity, like car drivers illegally using a mobile phone and running me off the road and killing people on pedestrian crossings.

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“normalised unsafe behaviour” doesn't make you safe, if merely gives the illusion. Dunning-Kruger Effect.

 

If they are too stupid to listen to your friendly advice, why should my taxes pay for their rescue??

 

Dob 'em in I say. It's got nothing to do with fun police and everything to do with reporting irresponsible stupidity, like car drivers illegally using a mobile phone and running me off the road and killing people on pedestrian crossings.

Your taxes aren't paying for their rescue, and why do you think they need rescuing? What part of the original posters description makes you think they need rescuing?

 

With all due respect, the OP didn't even know that cruising yachts need CAT 1 to leave NZ, casts some doubt as to any other assertions made about their competence or boat set up.

AND, under the current legislative arrangements, it is not possible for an un-sound boat or incompetent skipper / crew to depart NZ, so your arguement is fairly much null and void before you even started.

 

Just curious Kevin, have you sailed offshore?

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Let me paraphrase that a bit

 

Why should I pay .010 cents in tax to run a maritime rescue service help people if they run into trouble as I would rather they be fined or locked up or just drown.

no no no,

we shouldn't utilise an Air Force that we have to fund anyway for maritime patrol of our economic zone for the odd rescue, we should fund tall buildings full of bureaucrats to dream up rules and regulations to make us 'safer' when we do what ever it is we do for recreation. We definitely need minimum required sizes for solar panels, having too small a solar panel on a boat is definitely a safety risk - you know!

 

If the solar panel is too small, it may not power the hair drier, leaving a risk of chilling the head with wet hair and catching a chill. Just cause a towel can't be used for drying your hair, good grief!

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This story reminds me of an incredibly enthusiastic Bavarian chap that was dock crew on a boat I work on at the turn of the century . He was backpacking round NZ at the time and was employed helping us commission the boat for its first passage which was up to Papeete .

 

Boat got finished , we buggered off and left a sad Bavarian bloke on the dock . About halfway through that winter he shows up in Papeete in an old lidgard 1/4 tonner with a mate . Took them almost a month to make the passage from Auckland , the engine crapped out 2 weeks in they spent the last week beating into NE trades but somehow made it with only dinghy sailing experience and a waitemata shakedown cruise plus a ton of enthusiasm .

 

Not condoning setting off ill prepared but it's amazing what some people do with some very basic equipment and some very small and unusual vessels .

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Just like the law and 100's of police people ensure no one speeds on our roads. Just like there are no leaky building as we had 1000's of people over those not to mention 1000's of laws and way more checks by way more people than ever suss a departing boat. Just like there is no white collar crime due to the 1000's of laws and shitloads of people with huge power to stop any indiscretions. Just like the huge sums of money and man power ensures their is zero gang related crime in NZ.

 

How many suss a departing boat and what resources do they really have? 1 and f*ck all.

 

I think you greatly over estimate the ability of the powers that be to inhibit dumbarsry and stupidity.

 

 

Opps, I better add here seeing it is the year of offense just because it's 'on trend'. I have zero issues with Inspectors, in fact I have chatted to 2 and taken lots of advice from both during the retweak of my boat. But they are human and we all are fallible, well most are, there seems to be the odd one here who may disagree with that comment ;)

Driving you are a hazard to others

 

Sailing you are a hazard to no one but yourself

 

If we are so concerned about people being a hazard to ourselves, it would be pleasing to see our suicide stats come down. Peoples efforts would be better spent there than worrying about people going about private recreational endeavors.

 

And I agree with you on the driving points (just don't tell anyone I actually agreed with you ;-))

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Johnny Wrae sailed how many times to Raul Island with limited food/water no Cat1 survived,have we lost seamanship skills??

What is so wrong departing NZ with no cat1 if you sign a declaration stating you are of sound mind and if you fail to turn at point x by a certain time you accept that no one will be looking for you??

 

Mid 70s a guy at work sailed/raced to Tonga with all the latest toys onboard,missed Tonga by a day.

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This just in: Number of people in NZ on super.. 741,300  

It's not time for anyone to be bitching about tax dollars being spent on SAR. 

 

Regarding Cat 1, Being foreign registered doesn't mean that you're good enough to have sailed to NZ. Just that you've EITHER sailed to NZ or are smart enough to have registered elsewhere.

 

As to whether or not to intervene? Unless the vessel really looked manifestly unsafe, and the crew were all wasted, I'd leave them be. If they appeared to be setting up grandad's Hartley T16 to head to the "Islands" I'd have a chat and get to know a bit more before I made a call. 

It's strongly contradicts my "mind your own damn business" mantra to judge others based upon my expectation of what's important. In this case, there are so many things that were unknown to the original poster, and many things that Kev assumed (albeit well meaning), it would be an embarrassment to call authorities.

Cases of unwanted rescue occur too frequently, in many cases, with the judgement being made by armchair admirals (not you, AA), who've either no real experience of sailing, or who are not in full possession of the necessary facts.

For these reasons I also have largely discounted the unilateral recommendations of some coroner's reports.

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