DrWatson 368 Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 We are very rapidly approaching the time where we need to define a few of the optional extras that are to come on our boat. We may be signing the final contract as soon as December. 10.8m boat, 3600kg Disp. The suggested windlass is a Quick "Prince" 800W, whatever that is, but it's available with DIN766 or ISO chain gypsy. Apparently made in Italy. Along with that comes ground tackle. For the primary, the yard offer: # FOB Rock 12kg anchor (French made?) # 25m Galvanized 8mm chain # Splice for chaine & rope jonction # 30m Polyester rope for mooring 14mm (rupture4000Kg) for €505.00 (excl vat) That seems a pretty sharp price (?) but I know nothing about the specs or chain brand (don't think it's AQUA); this is taken from the docs I got which were roughly translated from French. The Yard seem to know their sh*t and when I've asked about some of the other things they specify they have pretty solid reasons for doing things a certain way. Nonetheless, I think I'd like to have a bit more chain length than that. But I'm also weight conscious. AQUA4? AQUA7? Questions; what would you lot do? How much chain etc? Will be cruising around whole EU for a while, so not like it's only going to be shallow, or only sandy etc... Additional stern anchor/chain, and a heavy anchor will also be carried for cruising. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zozza 291 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Hey KM, ive got 25m chain / 45m rope soon going on a flash new RC 8-6 that I purchased off some crowd calling themsevles Chains Ropes and Anchors....so im 30m short in the rope dept? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 368 Posted October 11, 2018 Author Share Posted October 11, 2018 Hey KM, ive got 25m chain / 45m rope soon going on a flash new RC 8-6 that I purchased off some crowd calling themsevles Chains Ropes and Anchors....so im 30m short in the rope dept? bahahah, sure, everyone wants a bit more length.... KM, thanks for the answer, has helped a lot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zozza 291 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Dodgy sounding mob that one How do I put this nicely? The Doc's dangling appendage is considerably larger than yours. But no need to feel inadequate as that is a very handy thing for you because you can slid yours into far smaller, shallower and tighter holes than the Doctor who due to his larger size does need a far bigger holes. Like most things the bigger they are the bigger, or in this case longer, the associated bits for it need to be. Basically Zozza, us little fellas do more with less that's why we are so much better for the planet :D LOL....you reckon IT will let you get away with this post ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 368 Posted March 4, 2019 Author Share Posted March 4, 2019 Right, So having trouble finding someone to supply AQUA4, and similar trouble finding a SARCA Excel. Crowd in The Netherlands offering me Rocna's chain offering, "Titan" G43, claiming to be 10% stronger than Aqua4 and with nearly 2x the galv coating... Smoke 'n mirrors or the real deal? €11 a metre, though... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 368 Posted March 4, 2019 Author Share Posted March 4, 2019 Thanks, that’d be very helpful. I did send them an email asking if their chain was out of China on account of their anchors also now not being made in NZ - no answer. Yeah, having worked on the edges of the medical marketing field I’m now starting to get pretty good at smelling the smoke n mirrors act. I once had a client ask me to “add science” to their cure-all elixir claims - right about there I informed them that I’d be stopping the collaboration. The dietary supplements and vitamins business is also one that’s totally full of bullshit as well. Anytime you see the claim “supports the immune system” you should leave your wallet firmly closed. Pseudoscience and technobabble. There’s No. Scientific. Evidence. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fogg 427 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Did you confirm your Quick windlass size? I had experience with them on my boat and had to upgrade from base spec to better match boat size. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marinheiro 352 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 I have spent a bit of time on a big Jeanneau, purchased new in NZ, the chain appears to be plastic coated??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 368 Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 Tis a good point. I didn’t update you but the yard are no longer installing the Quick, they install a Lewmar now as standard. V2, 700W. I’m clarifying with the yard if the std chain set is DIN or ISO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 368 Posted March 5, 2019 Author Share Posted March 5, 2019 yes, 8mm. Looked into the windlass. Apparently, for the V2 (and V1/V3) it's the same gypsy for DIN and ISO for the 8mm chain... Gypsy 001. https://www.lewmar.com/Windlass-Gypsy-Guides Which is pretty convenient. I guess I should also buy a manual recovery kit for the Lewmar, as well. Seems strange that it wouldn't come with that option as standard... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marinheiro 352 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 It is blue by any chance? The US uses lots of powder coated chain, no idea why though. Maybe just to squeaky bummed to buy stainless??? Black like it has been dipped, owner did not know it was plastic coated. I believe as supplied by the local dealer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fogg 427 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Tis a good point. I didn’t update you but the yard are no longer installing the Quick, they install a Lewmar now as standard. V2, 700W. I’m clarifying with the yard if the std chain set is DIN or ISO. I've had extensive experience with both Lewmar and Quick. Last boat (AC, 35ft, 5t) I had Lewmar V3. Yes according to the chart V2 is adequate and V3 was overkill but when it comes to anchoring I like overkill. I want to be able to raise the anchor by simply operating the remote switch and pulling the boat forward under windlass power alone in 30kts of wind - with no engine assistance. Obviously you can use the engine but I find it fiddly engaging fwd for a few secs then back to neutral so you don't run over anchor then fwd again. And all the time the engine revs (therefore alternator revs and therefore power supplied to windlass is varying because you need to be spinning most alts ~1400 to achieve full output to the windlass). So the V3 gave me this effortless anchoring experience. And KM provided a new gypsy and length of Italian chain & rode to set me up. Current boat (Aleana, 42ft, 9t) had 1000W Quick. Jeanneau are very naughty and the factory installs barely adequate windlass then swaps gypsy for next size up to create appearance of adequate power. I had to replace my Quick with 1400W to achieve same outcome I had for AC ie being able to pull boat forward and raise anchor under windlass alone in 30kts. So I wonder if 700W V2 will be adequate in fresh conditions? If weight is key then you'll obviously make do and manage accordingly but if effortless anchoring in a breeze is a priority I'd seriously consider extra grunt of V3. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 368 Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 Well, it's a shame we didn't talk about this a month ago ... lol. The V2 is, if not already bolted in the anchor locker/deck, at the very least sitting in the pile of stuff already delivered and waiting to be installed this week. So we've already paid for it and it's delivered. I'll let you know how it goes for pulling the boat into 30knts and a chop Weight is a bit of a factor, and as were increasing bow weight anyway with more chain etc, I don't want to overdo it. Keeping this boat light is a prime consideration w.r.t. maintaining it's good performance in terms of speed. We're taking the supplied 25m chain and 30m anchor warp + FOB 14kg ROCK to start with, but in parallel sourcing 40m G4 chain and 75m warp and hopefully a SARCA Excel. These will become the primary as soon as they arrive and the standard one will be come the secondary/stern anchor. Still considering a large Fortress additional as a storm/sand anchor, and will also get 100-150m 14mm Polyester braid (Lyros Porto ?) to use as shore lines etc. I have found an AQUA4 supplier, but in the UK (Jimmy Green Marine), and the freight charge is somewhat eye watering. Still looking for something mainland Europe and still no luck with the Excel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 368 Posted March 6, 2019 Author Share Posted March 6, 2019 Not well as they are not designed to to that ... You in Switzerland or ?? All the EU looks the same to us Sth Pacificers . Haha yeah I didn’t manage to get the ‘wry smile’ emoticon there. Standard procedure is for me to idle slowly forward while Christina takes care weighing anchor. We are in Switzerland (non eu), but the boat is in the eu (France) so we’re looking to get stuff inside the mainland eu (Germany, France, Netherlands, Italy even perhaps Denmark) simply because shipping it to the yard in France is easier without customs to deal with etc. And for France/Germany we can even do a personal pickup. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fogg 427 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Not well as they are not designed to to that click it motor into idle forward and let that drift the boat forward while the winch pulls in the slack. Anchor winches are designed to lift the gear from the seabed to the boat, they are not designed to drag the boat to the anchor. I may have a lead on the Excel, know later today. You in Switzerland or ?? All the EU looks the same to us Sth Pacificers The problem I find with idling forward under engine is two-fold: 1. In normal conditions even in slow ahead Aleana wants to motor about 2.5kts. That's just too fast because the windlass only takes in at about 1kt. So you're going to start running over the chain quite soon. Obviously in a stronger headwind or a smaller boat with less engine grunt then it's not such a problem and the speed might be matched better. 2. Slow ahead is only about 750rpm which means my alternator is pushing out no charge which means windlass is killing the battery(ies) - I need to spin 1200-1400 rpm to excite enough output from the alt to match the windlass. If I'm in gear at that speed Aleana wants to motor 4-4.5kts which is obviously no good. Hence best option for me is spin up to 1400rpm out of gear and winch up under windlass power alone as long as windlass is grunty enough - which mine now is. Note that V2 and V3 are actually the same size deck unit and it's only the motor & gearbox hanging underneath that vary. So you might be able to easily swap out the 700W V2 motor & gearbox drive (19kg) for a 1000W V3 drive (24.5kg) if you wanted? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,211 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 The old sailors used to say "let the cat do it" That means the catenary weight of the chain pulling the boat to the anchor. Lift a little, wait for the boat to start moving, then lift a little more. Its surprising how much way you can get on doing this, and against what wind. Or motor. Pulling the boat directly to the anchor consistently will break the winch eventually. Normally the worm drive. Make sure the winch is properly serviced, has oil in the gearbox, and the clutches work properly... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vic008 17 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Being so tight here, I worry about the expensive galv getting worn on the gypsy so usually use armstrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 368 Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 Here’s a thought, given we’re running lithiums, which can deliver far higher currents without damage, will it really be necessary for us to run the engine while using the windlass? Apparently can handle 3C continuous discharge = 480A... What will that v2 windlass draw? 58A at no load?Maybe 5x that peak at startup? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dagwood 57 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 I see capstans being used as bollards either for mooring or towing and someone said to me this isn't recommended as prolonged high loading on bearings etc isn't a good plan. Is this still the case? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fogg 427 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Here’s a thought, given we’re running lithiums, which can deliver far higher currents without damage, will it really be necessary for us to run the engine while using the windlass? Apparently can handle 3C continuous discharge = 480A... What will that v2 windlass draw? 58A at no load?Maybe 5x that peak at startup? V2 product spec says allow for 80A cont with 90A circuit breaker. I don't think I could do that to my poor batteries with no engine support and then expect them to keep my beer cold. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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