DrWatson 375 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Cherub NSW state championshipy. I count about 30 boats on the start line (or over it), seems a pretty good turnout. True, doesn't seem to be a dying class. But how many boats were there at the last state championship, and how many at the state championships 10 y ago? It never feels like a dying class until you slip below the critical mass. But compare to NZ population, Only NSW residents? Population 7.544 million. So NZ should/could muster perhaps 17 boats if the class was "alive" in NZ, based on the same per population turnout. Maybe it was also open to sailors coming from QLD and VIC as well? (4.69M and 6.53M, resp.) then on population basis NZ might have managed 7 boats... if the SI sailors could be arsed crossing the strait. Is seven boats enough to maintain a class? Kinda hard to believe so. As good and fun as each of these classes are, I think we're still missing the point by looking at the classes. We need to look at sailing as a whole and say "how do we keep the youth, how do we grow this?" Rather than saying, "How do we grow the firebugs?" or the P-class, or even the optis, lasers and skiffs. Rugby does well because there are no "multiple classes" of rugby. You can take your boots and your ball and go play, union, league or touch. there's no additional cash outlay, in fact, you can go play soccer with pretty much the same gear. Having the latest and greatest gear rarely makes you that much better than your peers. Eating more pies might. You can't take your laser and go race with the cherubs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Saturday Night Special Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 You can't take your laser and go race with the cherubs. you are right we are missing the point .I grew up racing at Sandspit Yacht Club we had in the early years 5 cherubs 6 paper tigers 4 or 5 NZ moths 4 comet windsurfers 5 p classes .the only ones who raced a different course were the Ps there was also the od IA that rurned up a guy with a scorpian cat .It was participatiobn at its best What has transpired is the must have this class or dont come attitude Selfish behaviour of( I am not going to help give out tech info of that kid might beat my little johnny ) I saw this first hand at several opti regattas where a newby had no idea how something worked and no one wanted to help even saw it at one of the big shore clubs when i asked the parent why the little girl quit i was told exactly this we arn't helping ourselves Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Priscilla II 392 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Yup Satnite it’s a pretty sad indictment of the society we have become. Sailing is meant to be a fun leisure activity that is a excellent platform for promoting independent self reliant thought processes in youth that are not selfish mean and inconsiderate. Have a look at the huge resources that poured into Olympic youth pathway classes and the bare cupboard of resulting medals that for me pretty well sums up the failing elitist nature of the sport. Bit like rugby really, grass roots is a rollicking derby of great amateur sportsmanship whilst the professional level is struggling to fill stadiums. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytom 642 Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 Bit of a difference here though (aside from the story of how the trophies were appropriated) the Lipton Cup has always been a Mullet boat gig, the Javs "inherited" their trophy from the X class. his magnificent solid silver trophy cup was first sailed for in 1921 after Otago issued a written challenge to Auckland announcing that their leading boat would come to Auckland and race the champion of the north in a beat of five series. On March 24th, 1921 on the Waitemata Harbour the “Iron Duke” owned and sailed by Governor General Lord Jellicoe, competed against “Heather” from Otago, sailed by W.J.P.McCullouch. “Heather” and her crew emerged victorious and the cup went south to Port Chalmers until the Aucklanders regained it a year later in “Desert Gold” skippered by Joe Patrick. The "Iron Duke "holds a bit of history to our family as Grandfather was one of Jellicoes main crew . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Priscilla II 392 Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 Crikey if they can do this in Patagonia we should be able to do it here. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cj! 19 Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 Seems to me that you need to decide what it is you're trying to achieve with youth and a club. Is it about getting them sailing or racing? Is it fun/engaging/social for both the kids and the parents? Is there a logical progression? Is it accessible/affordable? Can you run what you brung and still have a shot at the title or is it chequebook racing? Is there variety? Does the offer meet today's needs? There seems to be a lot of focus on kids sailing on their own but what about 2-handed these days? A lot of my friends and I started out in Arrows or Sunbursts with our parents and then moved on to Flying Ants and Cherubs and it was fun being able to share the experience with someone else in the boat plus you got to learn new skills. I like the idea of adventure sailing or sailing to a destination. We used to do it outside of racing at the club and it provided a sense of freedom and achievement that was hard to beat as a kid. My daughter learnt to sail in an Opti but gave it away after completing all the training and doing a few races (in which she did very well) when her friend that she had been learning with moved overseas. She likes to do things with friends and although she had other friends who were interested in sailing, the barrier was always the parents. The common reasons were they knew nothing about sailing, they thought it would be expensive, the time commitment, they didn't want the hassle of storing/maintaining/towing a boat. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytom 642 Posted November 26, 2018 Author Share Posted November 26, 2018 The issue is not so much Children not wanting to sail but when they have outgrown the Starling PT Laser etc why they are not progressing in to keelboat crew. Sure there is that keen element on keelboat or trailer sailors like the 5.9 etc for a better word want to be prima donnas but where has joe average gone too??Once finished Kohi,glendowie etc where do they dissapear too? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cj! 19 Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 The issue is not so much Children not wanting to sail but when they have outgrown the Starling PT Laser etc why they are not progressing in to keelboat crew. Sure there is that keen element on keelboat or trailer sailors like the 5.9 etc for a better word want to be prima donnas but where has joe average gone too??Once finished Kohi,glendowie etc where do they dissapear too? Do the keelboat clubs market to this segment or is it simply a 'we're here and they'll come to us' approach? Maybe all these young solo sailors aren't thinking about swapping from skipper to crew. Maybe they want something different? Instant gratification? What about the style of boats? Mini Transat 6.50's? Foilers? Daysailers? These would excite me if I was young and time poor. When sailing was at its peak there was no 7-day working week like there is now and there was less competition for their time. It's quite possibly a number of different factors but is anybody actually asking them why they will or won't continue sailing and what do they want? I'm not the demographic so really anything I have to say is just guesswork and assumption. Maybe YNZ needs to do some market research. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 Maybe YNZ needs to do some market research. Bugger me. There's an idea! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mattm 98 Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 Ht, have you sailed a dinghy lately? I’d say there would be plenty of people who would say going to keel boats isn’t progression but a change. Dinghies are fun, lower admin, lower cost, often faster, defiantly feel faster. Once you hit the ‘my parents aren’t cool’ age, why would they want to go sailing with some 60 year old who thinks he knows everything? Many / most of today’s dinghy sailors are much better technical sailors than many older people racing keel boats. One up side of the way dinghy training is done I guess. They can’t even near afford their own keelers, not many people under 40 (their not cool parents age) have their own keeler to sail with, why would they? What motivation does the sport provide them? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MarkMT 68 Posted November 26, 2018 Share Posted November 26, 2018 Yep, why is "keelboat crew" considered the logical progression and not something maybe a little more like this... https://youtu.be/0EnTIVFAVJE?t=195 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytom 642 Posted November 26, 2018 Author Share Posted November 26, 2018 Ht, have you sailed a dinghy lately? I’d say there would be plenty of people who would say going to keel boats isn’t progression but a change. Dinghies are fun, lower admin, lower cost, often faster, defiantly feel faster. Once you hit the ‘my parents aren’t cool’ age, why would they want to go sailing with some 60 year old who thinks he knows everything? Many / most of today’s dinghy sailors are much better technical sailors than many older people racing keel boats. One up side of the way dinghy training is done I guess. They can’t even near afford their own keelers, not many people under 40 (their not cool parents age) have their own keeler to sail with, why would they? What motivation does the sport provide them? Funny you should mention sailing with oldies,1976 Dad teamed up on a yacht and even though were at the backdoor,what I learnt away from the old boy was/is valuable experience.being only 16 at the time put on the foredeck and first experience was changing a terelene sail,socking wet and hank on another. And went back the following weekend for more punishment Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Saturday Night Special Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 https://www.facebook.com/YachtingNewZealand/posts/2098666283505348?__xts__[0]=68.ARBLvbykPrrCLexCY2W9-3zUCfe97cXCsiCI1TZqTjg4dPBTslgdNoZHIr0hfyl9_TbC-YkNLD9rBwcCyI5aky8SpMGHHdITfsAvdOKlrtUQLGe3SqiWZq1VCP-maie2-tjCN3PyQCFhiUH_w_f2OL3WsbwHpILqbbGa-iiuyLKrXEwq1YX2JgGDsGCtX0GQ4zUolqxLb0wPWWJTvx_LXjtkmeSpud2_CPMbFPyoXP3ecn6GvRrAIZxDlA-gEM9flWRK--_5kOVSQqIU16OvzkCbVApkYt00gAdAHTdXH2mUpQX4sdCnVzGjmTPVWhsDzibPSKImxqQskmjXzXzam6GfSwRtwEYUOXmorFHE39KYAlDZHh6QoRCCPjRrddJ5OVk2r6zBCkgHx9hXUB1g0As7lIz-yMe7qbqOw03dxHxTOjavjgLlIeMPePCFdMXftJvyvd1FEtF2aeR3dP4Yfh1ZMlcXKCKXdNIOIHJyt6evDKItGJEOl7LD7Sr7L3icum4BosUZQ72pR8OPKa2hlcYFM68&__tn__=K-R Maybee they should forget about this sort of Crap and start looking over their historical data at where the total decline started and why 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ex Elly 197 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 The Flying Ant has been re-launched in New Zealand as a one design sail away class Adam Beashel https://www.sail-world.com/news/212916/?source=email Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ex Machina 365 Posted December 10, 2018 Share Posted December 10, 2018 First the pavlova then split enz now it’s the flying ant and the cherub . You don’t realise how good the things you have are until you don’t have em anymore 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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