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Where are the youth?


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I suggest all parents and coaches to be minimum 5 miles from the start line when racing is underway.

Competition has its place but it can also put unnecessary pressure on kids. I really liked what someone said earlier about having more skills based agendas and focusing on the fun aspects of sailing rather than just racing. The Racing will come naturally as soon as there are two boats on the water in sight of each other.

 

I’m about to buy a boat that will be damn fast but will be penalised out of the standings in almost any race. To be honest I’m not buying it because I want to win races on handicap or whatever, but rather because sailing fast makes my girl smile ... and me...

 

It’s about the fun of it, not necessarily about beating the snot out of the rest of you who chose to buy a house instead.

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Here are 2 examples of boats that we created and still going great guns accross the ditch still home built in aussie(Yes they still do that ) or can be purchased from a class builder Kids from these classes generally go on to sail on the larger Keel boats in the region unlike the high performance group who just chase medals  breed kids and repeat the process.

What are these two mythical fun to sail, easily home built and presumably not too expensive craft?

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The first thing is making the kids enjoy mucking around in boats.

Second thing is making them good at it.

If you swap that order then chances are they won't stick around.

Sorry, I’m worried people are missing the point so I’ll quote it properly. This is the most important and pertinent post in the thread!

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Then there is the next step which now seems to create the biggest fall off the opti open fleet traveling circus .this is so intenses and bitter and twisted that by the end of it a lot of parents just grab their kids and run .The bic has offed a small alternative to this but it is gaining momentum and heading down the exact same track.

I've no knowledge of this yet as my kids are too young, but I'm interested in the extent of gear needed if you want you kid to get into away regatta's (i.e. start getting into some competitive regatta's).

Anyway, I took the kids down to see a Bic regatta being hosted locally and to expose them to some of the boats etc in the hope of sparking a future interest. I counted about 25 support boats (all corralled in an overnight paring area). I understand there is a minimum requirement for safety boats, but I thought 25 was a fair few.

 

Anyway, I had this idea that when my kids start sailing I'd be able to get out on the water to watch with our current tender, 3.2 m inflatable with inflatable keel and 5 Hp OB. Looks like I'd get laughed at. There may have been a 10 Hp OB, but most were 25 HP or greater. All boats were ribs with a minimum length of about 4 m, with many more substantial than that. And that's not counting the two sealegs of substantial size with 150 + OB's. Generally it looked like a minimum of $10k for a modest support boat, and you wouldn't be out of place with a $25k boat or bigger. I'm not sure how many of those boats were required as safety boats, but there certainly looked like a minimum entry requirement if you wanted to just watch you kids sailing from on the water.

 

PS, and that is without mentioning the odd descent sized Riveria that would turn up for a 'more comfortable viewing platform'...

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The 2 good sized pictures in SNS's post didn't tell you that?

One is a Flying Ant, the other a Cherub.

Thanks,

As they are functionally extinct in NZ, and not made of tuppaware, no the photos were of no use in identifying them.

 

Assuming I know how to build a boat (in plywood, not this new fangled foam carbon bizzo), how much would one of them cost? Rig sails and hardware wouldn't be insignificant I think.

And I am aware the majority of time in building a dinghy is in finishing it (as in sanding / painting, fitting deck fittings etc, as well as actually physically completing the project).

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Booboo is right 100%.

The focus on ‘learn to sail’ is really ‘learn to race’ which is great for the 3 kids who take turns at winning.

 

On the home built thing, that may have been a great opportunity for kids 20+ years ago, but today, the majority of people don’t have the space, the tools, the skills, or the time. That’s kids or parents. It’s not going to happen. That we have moved away from classes that can be home built isn’t the issue. That we have moved away from classes with good existing numbers of boats may be, as it means parents need to buy expensive new boats.

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Anyway, I took the kids down to see a Bic regatta being hosted locally and to expose them to some of the boats etc in the hope of sparking a future interest. I counted about 25 support boats (all corralled in an overnight paring area). I understand there is a minimum requirement for safety boats, but I thought 25 was a fair few.

 

Anyway, I had this idea that when my kids start sailing I'd be able to get out on the water to watch with our current tender, 3.2 m inflatable with inflatable keel and 5 Hp OB. Looks like I'd get laughed at. There may have been a 10 Hp OB, but most were 25 HP or greater. All boats were ribs with a minimum length of about 4 m, with many more substantial than that. And that's not counting the two sealegs of substantial size with 150 + OB's. Generally it looked like a minimum of $10k for a modest support boat, and you wouldn't be out of place with a $25k boat or bigger. I'm not sure how many of those boats were required as safety boats, but there certainly looked like a minimum entry requirement if you wanted to just watch you kids sailing from on the water.

 

PS, and that is without mentioning the odd descent sized Riveria that would turn up for a 'more comfortable viewing platform'...

 

That's a pretty depressing read, on multiple levels. What do these parents think they're accomplishing?? When I started sailing, about 10yo, I wasn't into racing (partly lack of opportunity), didn't have a flash boat - a little P Class with wooden spars, later a Starling, but I was certainly obsessed with the experience of sailing. And for me part of the magic was the independence, the freedom of having control of this little boat myself, deciding what course to sail and when to tack and gybe etc. My dad taught me how to rig the boat and the rudiments of sailing but then let me at it. We didn't have a lot of money but my parents knew someone with a bach - when we were away on holiday there, I would sail every hour the tide allowed, with no one watching (a sheltered shallow bay so not especially risky). My favorite book was Arthur Ransome's Swallows and Amazons, which captures the same kind of spirit so perfectly. I know kids are all different and I'm probably a bit peculiar and times have changed etc, but it's just hard for me to imagine what the parents described above think they're adding to their kids' experience.

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Rich kids are allowed to sail as well. The size of your outboard makes little difference to the support you can give to your kids while dinghy racing.

 

Swallows and Amazons was also our favorite series of books as kids. My father has written a series of similar type books but based in NZ and Aussie and in more modern times.

Probably my favorite of them is 'those sugar barge kids' based in the bay of islands.

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The 2 good sized pictures in SNS's post didn't tell you that?

One is a Flying Ant, the other a Cherub.

 

As someone mentioned, SNS maybe?, the Aussie national body has a sport wide focus so classes many of us here grew up in are still very much alive and kicking over there.

 

Having a bit of knowledge of Australian Sailing, it is probably heading down the NZ path to be honest however due to larger numbers and the spread of participants (Remember in Australia a people will do a 5 hour drive each way for a days sailing) that the classes like the Flying Ant etc are still around. Will they be around in 5 years time? I would like to think so but I think that there will be 1/2 the number of these classes still around. The regional clubs will still have them around but there won't be any great number sailing regularly at clubs. Even the Cherub is starting to disappear. The Flying Ant is trying to be revived, however the 'Tupperware' type boats are taking over. How do we change this? 

 

Clubs need to engage the whole family, and have a offering for everyone. How many clubs offer junior learn to sail course but not for the adults? Is there a pathway for those to continue sailing without necessary racing? Or has the club looked at alternatives for their programs? For instance one club runs there club racing on a friday evening for lasers. Every week, 5-7pm only, then encourages the whole family to come down for dinner etc. They have 50% of the fleet racing is youth 17-25 years old on top of this and is a growing club. The clubs who continue to do the same thing year in year out will slowly die and it is happening quicker than people think. There is a lot of competition for peoples time these days, and we need to offer options.

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exactly  "MarkMT"same I did back in 1972ish on Lake pupuke"not a flash "P" but got around the course,someone who shall remain naneless sailed there too,mummy would be on side of the lake barking out orders and daddy on the other side doing the same,yes that person achieved alot meanwhile his 2 siblings disappeared to where??

 

Brought my son a "P" 10yr ago,rigged it pushed him out he capsized,gave directions how to right it,no safety boat mid winter,got the hang of it after a few more capsizes,(kayak on standby) him and his brother just want to sail now,not interested in racing as went out for a ride on someone elses keeler,got yelled at for not knowing what he was suppose to be doing,got back to the wharf and "f#$k that"I wont be going back,so ended up buying our own yacht,

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Here we go: Back in my day......................................

 

150 P class sailing in three classes, one patrol boat that was also the committee boat. Raced Sat and Sun every week of summer. I can think of at least three world champions that came out of that fleet, plus a couple of Whitbread/volvo sailors, numerous national champs. And a huge number who stayed sailing and still do and still enjoy it.

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Rich kids are allowed to sail as well. The size of your outboard makes little difference to the support you can give to your kids while dinghy racing.

 

Hope you didn't think I was suggesting otherwise B00B00. Just pointing out that what might be intended as "support" isn't necessarily the thing that gives kids the 'bug' and in some cases may actually work against it, as well as potentially turning some other families off the scene altogether.

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Hmm, mostly but not entirely correct. The Jollyboat fleet are doing ok, and home-build ply ...

The sunburst is still available in plywood, one of my sons built a false floor model from the association kitset about 8 years ago, the boat is in the top 4 in NZ.

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The sunburst is still available in plywood, one of my sons built a false floor model from the association kitset about 8 years ago, the boat is in the top 4 in NZ.

I've been wondering about the Sunburst.

If I'm correct it is suitable for crewing with one adult and one child? i.e. Dad & Daughter?

That would kill a couple of birds with one boat...

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It's a long road that has no turning and remarkably Native is correct in most of what he said .Read Boo Boo's short post about having fun first and there you have it. My first 'boat' was a tin canoe,turned up sheet of galvanised iron like a stitch & glue with the stern plugged in with a bit of wood. No lifejackets (shock horror ) and we kids were gone all day.Later a derelict planked dinghy to which we added sails (purloined sheets).From there a P and so on. Later racing came but never lost the fun part. Sailing is a thrill when you come from that background no matter what form it takes...even racing ! But as BooBoo says it's not working particularly well when your start is focused on racing and worse,winning.

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Back in the day 60 years ago I got a life jacket for my 10th birthday, went down to the Howick Sailing club, I was asked if I was crewing, I crew for 3 years on an Aroow(won the World Arrow champs one year), bought a P and sailed for couple years, my 2 older brothers where sailing Moths so I did that for 2 years. All my mates all sailed but we went water skiing for 3 years.

I can remember in the Howick clubrooms the members would make sabots, an unpainted hull would be popped out each week and my older brother finished one off. the oldest brother had an arrow built by our dad, been and engineer it was far from light, but they both bought lightweight arrows in the end before progressing on to moths.

We all went sailing on a NZ37 at Bucks (one of the boys girl friend dad's boat), then I jumped on Roulette 2, Satanita 2, Chantel, Tequila, Inca, Corinthan (yes I was the BN for a year) Streaker, Kialoas, Condors.

Spent 7 years racing the offshore races around the gulf every weekend plus 5 Hobart's and I Suva race.

 

Went in to my first retirement in the early 80's

 

Late 80's bought a Sunburst to teach my 3 sons to sail over 10 years.

Went in to my second retirement late 90's

 

Started sailing IOM's (radio controlled yachts) 2002 for couple of years at Quarry Lake..

 

Shifted to Hawkes Bay and bought a PT and sailed that for 9 years........neck and back issues.........miss spent youth catching up.

 

Returned to Auckland 2015 and started back into IOM's at Wattle Farm.

 

The middle son built a sunburst in his spare time between racing as a profession sailor to teach his son to sail, who is now racing an opti and crewing on the sunny, now his daughter is crewing for him.

 

The oldest son bought a sunny 6 months ago to teach his daughter and son to sail.

 

 

The generation circle repeating itself.

 

Off to Taupo next weekend (17th & 18th Nov) to watch both of them sail in the Sunburst North Island Champs.

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Hmm, mostly but not entirely correct. The Jollyboat fleet are doing ok, and home-build ply ...

I wasn’t saying there are no home built boats, or classes that allow them left, just for the majority it isnt an option. If it wasn’t for the plastic imports, of all sizes, sailing in NZ would be in a lot worse place, as an avid P class fan and Laser loather, that hurts to say, but it’s true.

 

The OK’s seem to be doing well, worlds in NZ next year always helps.

Javelins are another example which are not factory built or imported, although it’s build new in carbon off the class mould rather than at home in ply, if you want to be competitive anyway.

 

It’s actually the same issue as the focus being all on learning to win races, rather than learning to love Sailing. -you will learn to race, you will learn to win, you will compete internationally. Can’t do that in a p class, better but what is raced internationally.

 

The attraction for me was being out there making my own decisions also, not sure I would have liked my parents chasing me in a tender shouting instructions every race. Why does a kid need to learn to sail if they will just be a voice activated remote control of their parents. Let the kids enjoy thinking for themselves, will serve them well throughout life.

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