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Dyneema Rigging

dyneema rigging rope

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#1 mcp

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 07:48 PM

At replacement time, are people replacing their wire rigging with Dyneema type rigging?   Would you?

 

What are the cons and pros?  On paper, it seems like a no brainer.


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#2 MartinRF

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 08:35 PM

Added question: How do I know it is replacement time?

 

/Martin


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#3 Willow

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 08:36 PM

There are performance and cost advantages, but seeing as people expect their standing rigging to last at least 10 - 15 years it is hard to imagine Dyneema lasting the distance and there is the chafe issue.

There is also the question of whether an insurance company would cover a rigging failure if it was Dyneema.

I suspect most would prefer to stick to tried and tested wire\rod or carbon for the well heeled.


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#4 native

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 11:11 PM

For all the pros of dyneema, light weight, ability to do it yourself etc the big advantage of wire or rod is the set and forget aspect of it. As Willow mentioned chafe would be my biggest worry, so while it may be excellent in  some applications it aint mainstream yet. Saw a blog about a guy who made some for his trad boat, parceled and served so well protected from both UV and chafe. In that application they were superb being lighter and cheaper and very DIY. Have a walk around the  marina, the only dyneema you'll see on 99% of rigs is backstay adjusters/bridals.

 

That said it depends on the boat and if i had a small light race boat, I might just consider it


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#5 idlerboat

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Posted 19 November 2018 - 02:27 AM

....the first lot on cruising vessels have now crossed the 10 year mark...

Chafe has turned out to be far less of a problem overal which is why logging companies are using it for ground 

snigging timber !!

...and the long keeled heavy cruising yacht next to me has spectra / dynema on its caps and D2 as well.

The newer fittings are easy to use and you simply back splice the rope. 

A jacket is usually only put on a section say from the lower spreaders down. 

Greatly reduced weight and higher strength.

I think you will find that its here to stay.


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There is only two substances..stuff and glue...and even glue is made of stuff,,
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#6 Knot Me... maybe

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Posted 19 November 2018 - 01:59 PM

Which UHMwPE (of which Dyneema is one brand name of, as is Spectra also) rigging are you talking about?

 

The one being described in this thread and is commonly seen around NZ on multiis and the worlds 2kt shitboxes is the No8 backyard version, it is not the fibre rigging seen on flasher boats. A lot of the 'good news story' around this home made style of rigging tracks back to a singular old shitbox cruiser in the US. None tracks back to the few Auckland boats, that have some level of performance, who did the same thing, 1 or 2 of them more than once, only to be back using wire today due to multiple issues. 

 

On Multis this style works well due to their angles i.e. the beam they have. DO NOT treat multi and monos the same with fibre, they are very different. We've made a few sets, for multis, using a product out of Armare in Italy called Supercable and they have worked very well.

 

Boats with high performance and fibre rigging use completely different stuff, some of which has a UHMwPE content to assorted degrees, often not that much though.

 

Most backstays you see in marinas are not UHMwPE, most are Vectran. Vectran is proving to not handle UV well, if you have any that the Sun can see and has been able to for a wee while and it's mission critical, I'd be nervous. If it was holding my mast up I'd be replacing it today. We have recently changed a few backstays from Vectran and load tested the old ones, found LOTS of strength degradation. My own vectran halyards, that were heavily coated, lost around 3000kg of their original 3500kg strength over 3 years. We have been changing the vectrans out for Dyneema Supercable, a SK75 dyneema over heat treated SK90 dyneema core double braid. It wasn't many years ago this wasn't that viable due to the lower grade product which stretched a bit too much but development into the SK75's and above has made them very viable.

 

UHMwPE is fine with UV. It's even better if you don't touch it. Treat it like raw alloy and it will 'oxidise' on the outside a little which then provides a sort of extra sun screen.

 

'Dyneema' made 10 years ago is very different than dyneema made today. A huge amount of 'dyneema' being sold isn't, most is chineema i.e. asian made versions. Some are fine, some are absolute sh*t, they all look pretty much the same to the untrained eye, often even to the trained eye. There is some Spectra around and we'll see more now Allied Fibres, the owner of the Spectra brand name, has decided to have a crack at Royal DSM's market.

 

We deal with Soft Rig, a mob who make real fibre rigging for race yachts, maxis and people who own average boats but have more money than sense. We have done quite a bit of fibre rigging both backyard style as well as the real McCoy. I have a new set of rigging being made for my bigger boat as I write, I'm using Hammerstrand (a competitor to Dyform) which is a compacted wire. All my backstays, runners and fixed MH, are dyneema, it's great for things like that.

 

Chafe should never be an issue in well made rigging of any material, bar maybe backstays due to battens.

 

Superfibers are the future for sure, zero doubt about it, but for us average people with average boats and sub Bill Gates level of income, the future is not quite here.......but it is coming and it's accelerating in it's pace to get to us.

 

NOTE: Most of the above is talking about the Dyneema and Spectra branded UHMwPE's. With Chineemas the variables can be big so some of the above does not apply.

 

Chineema = UHMwPE's made in China....which is being harsh on some but flattering to others.

 

Oh and Dynice (what used to be called Dynex until a Judge decided not) and Dynice DUX are not fibres, they are only more brand names. They were one of the first to market and have excellent marketing so many think they are something special. They are a bit old school now.


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#7 all fired up

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Posted 19 November 2018 - 02:23 PM

Good explanation Knot Me.

I am thinking of replacing some of my stanchion wires with Dyneema or similar. What would you suggest?

 

a.f.u.


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#8 idlerboat

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Posted 19 November 2018 - 02:38 PM

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There is only two substances..stuff and glue...and even glue is made of stuff,,
quote."MD"

#9 Knot Me... maybe

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Posted 19 November 2018 - 03:53 PM

Good explanation Knot Me.

I am thinking of replacing some of my stanchion wires with Dyneema or similar. What would you suggest?

I'm using Supercable, a dyneema over dyneema. There are a lot boats with that on them now and 2 more by weeks end. It is fully compliant with YNZ Safety Regs, something many fibre lines in use aren't but most of those are still probably OK from a users point of view which is the most important aspect.

 

Huge weight saving, next to zero metal bits, cost a tad less than wire.

 

If you want to go deep read this. It is a big suss I did when we did the first ever boat just to make sure we weren't going to kill it's owner of the time, a Club Commodore no less. That's now 5-6 years old there abouts and should be updated a bit with fibre a bit cheaper now and a few little things like that.

 

As I can't use strings you lot do my are the same stuff.........but they glow in the dark {insert 'hand firmly on it' ethingy} :D

 

 

Nice fitting Idler but one would question the strength lost due to such a tight radius...especially in old school dyneema like fibres if that's 10 + years old. Real fibre rigging used thimbles (if not proper swag like fittings) just like wire for the same reason. One would also question what's happening under that sleeving. A high performance vessel in NZ lost it's many many $0's worth of rig. They had a dyneema fibre stay failure which they never saw coming as their rigger also used loose sleeving just like that. Hey, that one is probably perfectly fine but it's certainly not best practice in 2018. Looks like the big loads still go through wire, which when you think about it is not a bad idea. Some savings but also some tried and true, I like it.


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#10 Ptown

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 08:17 AM

Anyone know who did the standing rigging on High Spirits and what was used? It may determine how I sail the old girl. hehe

 

Chur


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Cheers

 






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