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Dyneema Rigging

dyneema rigging rope

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#11 Knot Me... maybe

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 09:34 AM

Anyone know who did the standing rigging on High Spirits and what was used? It may determine how I sail the old girl. hehe

It had a set of 'kevlar' but it stretched massively. It was then discovered it was only kevlar coloured something lowish tech, probably polyester. It was changed.

 

I think the name you are after is Paul Myer. I shall speak at him to see what he knows.


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#12 Priscilla II

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 09:59 AM

Pluckey yaks whilst Magarita does the yakka.


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#13 Ptown

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 10:31 AM

It had a set of 'kevlar' but it stretched massively. It was then discovered it was only kevlar coloured something lowish tech, probably polyester. It was changed.

 

I think the name you are after is Paul Myer. I shall speak at him to see what he knows.

Thanks

 

The rig actually seems really solidly built and in good nick but it is getting a bit long in the tooth now for Dyneema if what you're saying about UV degraded strength is on point


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Cheers

 


#14 1paulg

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 12:16 PM

Have commented before on this - P’zazz has dyneema rigging which was replaced after 11 years (2 years ago)still in good order . The weight saving is significant but as already pointed out you need to be careful of chafe so maybe with an overlapping Genoa could be an issue but with self tackers fine .
Good stuff these days is pre stretched although after big loads initially will probably need re tensioning . Fantastic stuff and similar cost ( in our case) to S.S. Don’t know why more boats don’t use it - My insurance was happy to let us get same age as S.S. out of it before replacing .
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#15 Knot Me... maybe

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 07:22 AM

The rig actually seems really solidly built and in good nick but it is getting a bit long in the tooth now for Dyneema if what you're saying about UV degraded strength is on point

Basically 95% of 'fibre rigging' we see in NZ is made by 'kiwi lads given it a go', it is nothing like what you'd get if you went to say Soft Rig, a big manufacturer to race yachts up to Superboats. Some of the NZ stuff has worked OK to very well, like 1paulg for example, his is a ideal boat (multi) that had a builder who was both fussy and smart (it is a very nicely build ride) so was set up well for fibre, which looked to have been made by someone with good skills. There are a reasonable number around with 'NZ way' fiber working very well, but there is also a lot who have tried to find it had been installed with too higher ratio of Mr Cock-Up.

 

If I had a multi I'd be using fibre and be fine with using the NZ version, history has shown it works well at a fair price if done properly. But I have a mono, the lastest DM range of no creep genuine Dyneema at work, minimal price concerns, the knowledge to make safe shrouds and I do like a good bit of wank factor. I also have access to the real McCoy from Soft Rig at cost prices but I am paying Yacht Spars to make me a new set using wire because I want stable and reliable without spending near moonbeams times the cost of wire.

 

UV degradation depends on many things, as does strength retention. To say X will do Y in Z time frame is a bit tricky due to all the variables.

 

Do a visual check for cut's abrasion and the like. If you find anything you think maybe dodgy the chances are it probably is so suss it deeper quick. If all looks good then fingers crossed.

 

If you are worried you can take one shroud off and get it load tested. If it fails then you know, if it's OK then you'll know. Pick one that gets a representative amount of everything.

 

With over braiding or sleaving, it's best to have it body hugging like lycra on a hot 30yo rather than granny stockings slumped down around her ankles. If it's body hugging it will be obvious if issues are arising, grannys stockings hide spooky very well.


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#16 Sudden5869

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 03:42 PM

I'm using Supercable, a dyneema over dyneema. There are a lot boats with that on them now and 2 more by weeks end. It is fully compliant with YNZ Safety Regs, something many fibre lines in use aren't but most of those are still probably OK from a users point of view which is the most important aspect.

 

We changed to Dyneema "Supercable" this year of Oliver Sudden.  The lifelines were due.  Spliced by Andrew at SailIQ, sourced from Chain Ropes and Anchors.  

 

Light weight.  Easy on the Hands.  Looks great.  And the best bit is; if the lifelines need to be removed to maintain stanchions, simply pull the line through.  No cutting swaged wire rope... 


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Oliver Sudden - Young 1034


#17 mcp

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 08:33 PM

 

With over braiding or sleaving, it's best to have it body hugging like lycra on a hot 30yo rather than granny stockings slumped down around her ankles. If it's body hugging it will be obvious if issues are arising, grannys stockings hide spooky very well.

 

Can I get you to clarify this a little further, please?   I just got lost when the mental images happened?!


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#18 Knot Me... maybe

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Posted 22 November 2018 - 07:26 AM

Which image, the vacuum packed hottie or grannys cankles? On second thought, don't answer that one ;)

 

If you have lines under big loads they can be damaged by impacts, chafe easier and in some cases start to fail due to age/over loading/ UV in the case of vectran and general sh*t happens. When you have soggy stocking like sleeving it is easy for that to hide that sort of damage, in many cases the sogginess will allow damage to the load member but show little to bugger all on the sleeving, it gets pushed/flicked/whatever out of the way.

 

But if you have body hugging it does the same when talking protection but will show damage far easier and sooner than soggy.

 

I mentioned above a boat who uses Dyneema shrouds. In those it has a section that goes around a decent sized sheeve when they want to adjust the rig which is fine. But this happens under big loads so there is a constant threat of heat related damage and certainly chafe. UHMwPE's will start turning back into a jelly at only 160 degrees so heat build up is a concern with it. This boat replaced the moving section of their shrouds via a big name outfit. But the person who did it made a few unilateral decisions that were far from wise but I have no reason to believe weren't made in the best intentions. The line was down sized which was a big call in itself but the big cock up was sleeveing it. The idea was to help with chafe protection but the sleeving was soggier than it should have been so simply did not work. That sleeve also hide the line under it so the boat never saw the damage happening. That section of the line is a known issue due to it's very high work load and 100% mission critical application i.e it fails the boat is 101% rooted, it is replaced regularly whether it looks like it needs it or not due to that.

 

But the downsizing put the line under higher pressure at the same time the boat had a lot on. That would have been OK as the crew know about the section and it is very visible so can easily be monitored for unusual..........unless it was sleeved.

 

Long story short the soggy sleeving hide what we suspect was a overloading/ heat related/ chafe failure. The rig fell down, people lawyered up and cost the big name mob a sh*t load of 0's. If the sleeving had been body hugging the chafe would have been visable and quite likely when the failure happened there is a high chance the crew may have seen the stands failing giving them time to save the rig. Also the sleeving acted a bit like a woolly jumper and help hold heat.

 

That case was not widely known to be going on here but was watched quite intently by rope and fiber manufacturers around the world. It got quite technical and people worldwide were asked for opinions (there was a BIG $ number involved), some were willing to give them but many stepped back not willing to get involved due to connections and assorted things. I spend some time working with one sides legal team. It was highly interesting yet a little spooky.


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#19 native

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Posted 22 November 2018 - 07:36 AM

Lost here a bit,

 

What is a loose sleeve, how is it fitted on dyneema and why, whats its made of and what is the best application for it. Same goes for the close fitting sleeve. Do you have a link to the article or report on the rig failure mentioned above?


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#20 RushMan

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Posted 22 November 2018 - 08:37 AM

 
I mentioned above a boat who uses Dyneema shrouds. In those it has a section that goes around a decent sized sheeve when they want to adjust the rig which is fine.


Canting rig?

Are you allowed to name the boat or do I need to try three guesses?
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