Wind vane self steering

[Sail Rock 28]

I am considering fitting a wind vane self steering unit to my boat (Chico 30) that has a transom hung rudder. It would need to be installed off centre so as to be clear of the rudder and I am wondering how well the proprietary systems like Hydrovane operate off centre when the boat is heeling. Also interested in whatever tips/opinions/advice people might have on the various systems available, e.g. Hydrovane, Monitor, Fleming, etc. Alternatively does anyone out there have a rudder trim tab type of system that I could take a look at?

[Steve Pope 243]

Most of the modern designs of windvane work well when fitted off centre.  Trim tab self steering works well. It can be by attaching a Trim Tab to your existing rudder, for which a transom hung rudder lends itself. The further back from the existing rudder you place the TT the more powerful it will be. Or by attaching a secondary rudder with a trim tab attached, This is suitable for anything other than transom hung rudders. 

I have a trim tab system that is similar to the "Auto-helm" design made by Scanmar in the us. (google)  It is a cable operated system. I have put the vane above the radar arch and have actuating cables that work the TT. There are yachts (mostly older) using this system, mostly out of America if you look amongst the visiting offshore fleet I'm sure there will be examples to study. It is as near to bullet proof of any I have come accross. Of interest is the yachts in the current Golden Globe race that have had difficulties with some makes of modern SS set ups. 

[southernman 73]

I have a Hydrovane installed on my yacht and it's offset, it works perfectly.  My only thoughts would be that it's a lot of weight to have on the stern of a small boat.  Key points I've learnt from using a Hydrovane are:

 

- balance of the yacht is important i.e. not overpowered.  

- Make sure the mounts are ROCK solid, there is a LOT of force involved on this thing in a seaway and high winds

- Make sure you fully test all functionality in all winds before you have to rely on it.  I'm lucky that I also have a autohelm

- The Hydrovane is a better option in my opinion due to the fact it runs totally independent of the rudder and also for Cat 1 can act as compliance for a secondary steering device for the yacht if you lost your rudder. 

- They are bloody expensive don't go cheap on the installation

- Get a good setup for your control lines, ideally to the cockpit companionway.  Makes it easy to adjust or gype the boat while on the winches etc.  Otherwise you have to trim, then move back and adjust the boat trim

- Have a very good method to lock off the helm and ability to adjust it to a slight angle if required for boat trim. 

 

If you want photos let me know. 

[Sail Rock 28]

Thanks for the tips guys. SM - yes, some photos would be helpful if not too much trouble for you to upload.

[Priscilla II 392]

“They are bloody expensive don't go cheap on the installation”

SR if you are doing coastal why not save some roubles and go Autohelm or similar.

Power demands can be met by solar which offers more options for other use.

Self steering weighs quite a bit and generally speaking is of more practical use for offshore passages.

[wild violet 38]

Hydrovane far to big for a chico,i have a late model fleming lovely light unit,saying that any boat with a stern hung rudder can have a small light trim tab fitted,which is as simple as it gets.And is basicly bulletproof.

[southernman 73]

Yip can post photo.  

 

Hydrovane far too big for a chico - Nope, plenty of 30-33 ft boats with Hydrovanes on them.  The weight of most Hydrovanes is around 35 kg's.  

 

The Fleming also can't be used as a back up rudder right?  

 

I've found offshore sailing that the windvane is the best bet and that's on a fairly modern cruiser also. Sure the autohelm is great also but solar alone on a 30 ft boat won't keep up with the demands of the autohelm especially in robust conditions and if you fancy a cold beer also.  Not unless you plan on having an ugly boat with lots of solar panels mounted all over the joint

 

If you are doing local stuff then yes run with the autohelm.  The main issue on the chico is mounting a decent autohelm, can be done but takes up cockpit room.  I'd go with the windvane if you are heading offshore. 

 

The installation of a decent autohelm adds up real fast, keep that in mind also.  Saying that a Hydrovane is not a cheap investment either.  

 

Just my 2 cents, have owned a chico 30, great boat.  

[Priscilla II 392]

“The installation of a decent autohelm adds up real fast,”

Pretty much plug and play for a boat that size.

[southernman 73]

“The installation of a decent autohelm adds up real fast,”

Pretty much plug and play for a boat that size.

 

Doubt it if you compare apples with apples you would likely need:  

 

- Mounting Bracket

- Compass

- Hydraulic Ram

- Controller

- Run the cables

- Power Supply

- Upgraded battery capacity

- Upgraded charging capacity

 

Hmmmmm not much change out of 5k i'd suggest.  Not sure I'd be trusting a cockpit based plug and play autohelm in anything more than a cruise up the Coast.  Each to their own I guess. 

[Island Time 1,234]

5k is about right for a complete AP system (drive, AP computer, controller etc) suitable up to about 35 ft, unless your happy with a tiller pilot , from $850-1500

Fitting would be additional.

But, modern aps are much more flexible than a wind vane, with proper wind steering, Nav, route following and alarm systems. If your boat is heavy on the helm, the AP will suck power. Fix the trim, then not so much.

[Priscilla II 392]

Doubt it if you compare apples with apples you would likely need:  

 

- Mounting Bracket

- Compass

- Hydraulic Ram

- Controller

- Run the cables

- Power Supply

- Upgraded battery capacity

- Upgraded charging capacity

 

Hmmmmm not much change out of 5k i'd suggest.  Not sure I'd be trusting a cockpit based plug and play autohelm in anything more than a cruise up the Coast.  Each to their own I guess.

 

Crikey it’s a Chico 30 not a 40 footer.

[Steve Pope 243]

every plus has a minus, also known as unintended consequences. 

[Guest 000]

A big thumbs up for windvane self steering.

A good example of the KISS principle.

I built mine which means I gained a good understanding of the concepts involved in windvane trim tab self steering gear.

It also means that I can repair it. Anywhere.

[wild violet 38]

Used my fleming in 50 knots this year no worrys thats what they are for,Used another fleming on a delivery down wind storm jib only old heavy steel boat got knocked down and main hatch blown in by a wave vane just kept on going,would have been dangerous to be outside hand steering.Were surfing at up to 14 knots. Not sure how an autopilot would have handled it only use mine for motoring

[Island Time 1,234]

properly spec'd AP's will steer in anything...

B&G H5000 AP

[wild violet 38]

Would cost more than my yacnt thougn eh

[Island Time 1,234]

That can be a problem ! 

[Priscilla II 392]

Crikey now the Chico 30 has transmogrified into a Open 65.

Sailrock what are your sailing intentions.

[Yourmomm 2]

I've got an atoms hanging off the back of my 25ft boat: it had a much bigger windvane before this one (german wind pilot pacific light), and i understand it worked fine. There's a video on YouTube of a previous owner having this one working, on this boat, too...I'm going to try to get her in a mooring at westhaven this weekend (to remove the bowsprit), if you want to come and have a look at it then. If I've got time, I'll be taking the vane off, as well, so I can remachine a rusted through part and get it working again...

[Black Panther 1,581]

I have sailed across the tasman on a chico ( the boat had just won the single handed trans tasman) had a brilliant system with custom centerline vane direct to a trim tab on the out board rudder. Worked brilliantly. Cheap to make.