MNZ on VHF

[harrytom 642]

Over the last week or so. MNZ has been pushing the use of vhf to save lives. They maybe correct to a certain degree."You may not see a vessel but your call on ch16 will be heard"

Now the advert shows a upside down dinghy,so presuming MNZ are pushing that they should of had a handheld water proof vhf?

 

www.maritimenz.govt.nz/recreational/safety/communications/vhf

 

Once in the position of the video,I would suggest too late due to height above water unless close inshore? I would of thought a flare be of far more use in that situation? Thoughts.

[ex TL systems 63]

Even from in the water I would think a vhf will have reasonable range with some of the repeaters at high points on land. A phone in a case could also be useful if in range.

[MarkMT 68]

I wouldn't sail solo without one (and a PLB). Now if only CG would get with the program and support DSC.

[Crazyhorse 47]

I wouldn't sail solo without one (and a PLB). Now if only CG would get with the program and support DSC.

I second that. PLBs are essential but that doesn't "sink" in for those going out of VHF range with the wife and kids in a tinny. Most take a cellphone but how many have it in a pocket and not a waterproof bag? DSC is looked upon here as unnecessary even though CG unofficially have it. MNZ needs to do a re-think on its use here.

[Fish 0]

 I would of thought a flare be of far more use in that situation? Thoughts.

Ever tried letting of fireworks after soaking them in sea water?

 

There are two recent examples (within the last 12 moths) where flares were used in a life threatening situation, and they did not work (i.e. did not alert rescuers).

 

Flares are pyrotechnics. They are a hazard to transport, they are a hazard to store, and they are bloody dangerous to let off.

Try freighting a life raft somewhere and you will start understanding the regulations as to how hazardous flares are.

 

The sooner flares are banned and PLB's, and VHF's encouraged instead, the better.

Not to mention AIS rescue beacons, on top of PLB's.

And DSC. Imagine a way to turn every VHF in range onto 16, and set off a car alarm noise to attract attention of the listener to the VHF, before you broadcast your Mayday. Chances of your Mayday being heard go up 500 %.

And if you are in the water with a hand held VHF, all you have to do is push the red button. sets off car alarms on every boat within range, with you position, so you don't even have to broadcast a Mayday, if you are too busy swallowing water. Bring on DSC.

[harrytom 642]

I very rarely had the vhf on unless making a long passage or wanted the weather.

In my experience of listening to a mayday call one vessel had no idea where they were and spent time describing to c/g the surrounding area,bet that is not a one off

 

Reminds me of the lady who lost her diver off tuts,if she wasnt waving a tea towel so frantically we would never of turned around,no idea how to use a flare or vhf.

[Island Time 1,219]

Every vessel so equipped is required to keep watch on channel 16. By law. However I realise many dont.

If the radio is on at all, even on low volume, a dsc distress call will be heard, the tone is as loud as the radio can make it.

Dsc is a great feature, unfortunately many don't connect it. Imo it should be compulsory.

[harrytom 642]

IT ,I think you are incorrect regarding law to keep listening watch on recreational vessels,please show where it is stated for vesels under 20m.

[Island Time 1,219]

In the colregs. All vessels shall maintain a watch by all available means when underway.

[Island Time 1,219]

True, I just looked it up. It says "should" and "where practical"

NOT must.

I was wrong -again!

[harrytom 642]

Visual watch refers to keeping a proper lookout eyes/radar. what does vhf see??

 

The problem with vhf at this time of the year,is all the B/S clutter when a cellphone call will do to your mate.

[Fish 0]

 Also didn't that boat off Barrier with Dad and daughter aboard and a busted window also have big issues in reporting it's correct location? Can a visual signal get lost?

You are going to have to face facts one day KM, flares are a liability.

This example, where the father and daughter drifted from GB for two days and one night, to be found off Waiheke, is the leading example of the problem with flares, and how lectronics would have had them safe and rescued in 30 min.

 

They had flares, and nothing else. Mobile phones went flat.

They let off their flares to attract attention of "passing boats",

you know what happened?

Nothing.

 

Well not quite nothing, they did drift for another 24hrs, until the mother of the daughter lost her rag with the father for not returning the daughter and called the Police...

 

The other recent  example of parachute flares not working was the little Townson, Waimanu 2. Lost rig and taking water in fast, passing ship. Set off flares...

 

you guessed it

 

 

Nothing...

 

 

But then, he set off an EPIRB and had a Charlie 130 overhead within the hour. 

 

Now KM, can you please please please please kindly give an example of a flare being used for a rescue. Any example. If its within the last five years I'll eat my sailing boots.

 

And flares launched from land on a Friday arvo within a populated Auckland suburb don't count. - mainly cause it wasn't actually a rescue.

 

You can give as many scenario's as you want, I can counter with as many. But do you have any actual examples of flares working?

[B00B00 310]

We used a flare once when we had some serious keel trouble half way down the West coast. Had many other racing yachts close by but couldn't reach any of them on VHF so MNZ recommended a flare to get their attention. It worked and we had a boat along side shortly afterwards until we were at the hokianga harbour entrance with coastguard standing by.

I think that's the first and last time a TP52 will ever tie up to hokianga wharf....

[harrytom 642]

We used a flare once when we had some serious keel trouble half way down the West coast. Had many other racing yachts close by but couldn't reach any of them on VHF so MNZ recommended a flare to get their attention. It worked and we had a boat along side shortly afterwards until we were at the hokianga harbour entrance with coastguard standing by.

I think that's the first and last time a TP52 will ever tie up to hokianga wharf....

Fish,please send video of you eating your sailing boots

[Fish 0]

Fish,please send video of you eating your sailing boots

With respect to Booboo,

it wasn't a rescue,

and they were already in contact with Maritime NZ... via what? some lectronic device? (I'm guessing sat phone or SSB).

 

Which means we are still after a real life example of a flare being used to initiate a rescue.

 

My sailing boots live to see another day...

 

PS HT, the example needs to be within the last five years for it to qualify for boot eating.

One more detail to add, I'll eat the boots at the re-launch of Suburban Reptile... when ever that may be...

[B00B00 310]

Well ok not quite a rescue fish, but as close as I have ever come to needing one. The keel was free swinging under the boat held by just the front pin and we were taking on water. All crew on the transom with life raft ready to jump off should the keel drop right off. We did need to get a boat standing by us quite quickly. We were in contact with maritime radio by VHF and I think sat phone. It seemed that the only way to get attention of the other boats who were within a few miles was a flare, and it did work.

Not saying flares are the best thing, but the only time I have used one at sea it did have the desired effect.

[Crazyhorse 47]

Those that actually have a RROC will remember the requirement to maintain watch on 2182 for 5 minutes past the hour in NZ. Ships wireless operators did the same on VHF 156.800 and I believe most GROC holders on ships today still do so even though the position has officially been disestablished by the GMDSS, holders of a STCW95 still keep watch on radio. The US required ships signals officers to do a watch on the half hour and on 500khz too even producing a wireless room clock.

Today? Who knows but if you have a working VHF and a watch, can call on the hour or half hour til 5 minutes past, they might just hear you. Handy to know if you are in a raft left with a HT with limited battery capacity!

[harrytom 642]

For some unknown reason when Vhf came in the silent period disappeared

[Crazyhorse 47]

For some unknown reason when Vhf came in the silent period disappeared

Morse was the first victim. Where voice simply can't be heard, morse usually got through, now obsolete. Then the requirement to even have GROC officers went, early 90's. All a result of GMDSS. Pick up a phone now and dial home. The satellite providers must be making a packet. Ships are still required to carry HF capable coms, the military still uses HF but mostly highly compressed digital or spread spectrum. Wait til there is a GIANT solar flare the likes of which wiped out power in North America in the 1920s. Satellites are supposed to be EMP protected....yeah right. The future of marine coms is probably digital, even marine VHF! Years away, but coming. Satellites will be able to "store and forward" any emergency call made on CH16. Not just that but a highly accurate GPS location. Instead of a DSC button only switching all transceivers in range to CH16, it will trigger a LO satellite. Just my crystal ball gazing.

[Fish 0]

Well ok not quite a rescue fish, but as close as I have ever come to needing one. The keel was free swinging under the boat held by just the front pin and we were taking on water. All crew on the transom with life raft ready to jump off should the keel drop right off. We did need to get a boat standing by us quite quickly. We were in contact with maritime radio by VHF and I think sat phone. It seemed that the only way to get attention of the other boats who were within a few miles was a flare, and it did work.

Not saying flares are the best thing, but the only time I have used one at sea it did have the desired effect.

It certainly is the best example we've had of a flare being used in anger, I wouldn't want to diminish that.

It just for me to eat my sailing boots, it needs to be a rescue, and within the last five years. Truth be told, I'm not keen on eating my sailing boots...

 

When was this issue with the TP 52 Booboo? it certainly sounds interesting.

 

And a straw poll, Booboo, you must have many 10,000's of sea miles. From your observations, what would be the most common way of calling for assistance / rescue, what would be the most reliable way, and how many times would flares have been used in anger in combination with some other form of calling for rescue?

 

I can see flares have a purpose, like marking a position. But I would have thought the modern electronics are far more reliable for communicating a mayday situation in the first place.