Sailing Crash

[Stand By 0]

Morning people on forum I’m after some unbiased advice on a sailing incident from the weekend. no one was hurt but a boat has a hole and needs repair. This was in dinghy’s and was before the prestart sequence had started for this fleet.

 

Both boats started on starboard and where Close Reach to Beam Reach. There was about 8-10 boat lengths separation and the wind was about 5-8knots. Boat A was a little higher than boat B.

 

Boat B tacked and once completed was pointing just below Boat A, but now on port.

 

Boat A started moving to a Broad Reach and Boat B also moved to a Broad Reach.

 

As the boats got closer Boat A beared away as did Boat B. Contact was made and Boat B has a hole at the bow on the port Side.

 

No communication happened on the boats, even though both skippers could see each other, until it was too late.

 

What’s everyone’s views?

[Fish 0]

Boat A is at fault. Being on starboard, A is the stand on vessel, and is required to 'stand on', effectively meaning to not change course.

Boat B is required to keep clear, as they are on port. It is apparent B attempted to keep clear by going down. Effectively A hunted him down, negating any efforts by B to keep clear.

[Stand By 0]

Boat A is at fault. Being on starboard, A is the stand on vessel, and is required to 'stand on', effectively meaning to not change course.

Boat B is required to keep clear, as they are on port. It is apparent B attempted to keep clear by going down. Effectively A hunted him down, negating any efforts by B to keep clear.

 

Thank you Fish. This is inline with my thinking. Hard to get peoples honest view in club as they don't want to upset either sailor. 

[philstar 61]

Were they 2 boat match racing?

 

You can't actively "hunt"  unless 2 boat match racing. 

If they were fleet racing then boat A is in the wrong under Rule 14 

 

If they were match racing "its all on" and boat B would be in the wrong.

 

Four rules about general limitations: [Part 2, Section B]

1. Even if you have right-of-way, it is your duty to avoid a collision, once it becomes apparent that the other boat is not keeping clear (Rule 14).
2. If you acquire right of way, you must initially give the other boat room to keep clear, unless you get right of way because of the other boat's actions. (Rule 15)
3. A boat that changes course, even if it has the right-of-way, shall do so in a manner that gives the burdened boat a chance to "keep clear" (Rule 16).
4. If you catch up with another boat and you want to pass it to leeward, you may not sail above your proper course i.e. you shall not luff higher than you would have done if that boat wasn't there (Rule 17)

[Stand By 0]

 

Were they 2 boat match racing?

 

You can't actively "hunt"  unless 2 boat match racing. 

If they were fleet racing then boat A is in the wrong under Rule 14 

 

If they were match racing "its all on" and boat B would be in the wrong.

 

Four rules about general limitations: [Part 2, Section B]

1. Even if you have right-of-way, it is your duty to avoid a collision, once it becomes apparent that the other boat is not keeping clear (Rule 14).
2. If you acquire right of way, you must initially give the other boat room to keep clear, unless you get right of way because of the other boat's actions. (Rule 15)
3. A boat that changes course, even if it has the right-of-way, shall do so in a manner that gives the burdened boat a chance to "keep clear" (Rule 16).
4. If you catch up with another boat and you want to pass it to leeward, you may not sail above your proper course i.e. you shall not luff higher than you would have done if that boat wasn't there (Rule 17)

 

 

yes fleet racing.

[Fish 0]

It was before the pre start sequence started, so def not racing or match racing. Isn't that straight out colregs? And when do RRS start? At the preparatory signal?

[Island Time 1,228]

Before the pre start? If so, its colregs that apply, not rrs. Boat A still at fault. He must allow B to keep clear, and intentions must be made clear early.

[Stand By 0]

Before the pre start? If so, its colregs that apply, not res. Boat A still at fault. He must allow B to keep clear, and intentions must be made clear early.

 

Yes it was before their fleets start sequence (only by about 1-2 minutes) other fleets were in start sequence. They were in the third start of the days first race. I was also wondering if race rules even applied at that stage. 

[harrytom 642]

Boat A needed to hold course so to give boat B room to move.as far as I am aware not racing until prep signal.

[Island Time 1,228]

Yes it was before their fleets start sequence (only by about 1-2 minutes) other fleets were in start sequence. They were in the third start of the days first race. I was also wondering if race rules even applied at that stage. 

They dont start until the Prep signal... Before that it's colregs.

[Stand By 0]

They dont start until the Prep signal... Before that it's colregs.

Thank you for this info. Just to check i'm reading this right. Before the P flag goes up for their start they are under Colregs? i.e. it doesn't matter that other boats are in starting sequence. 

[Island Time 1,228]

yep.

[Stand By 0]

I’ve thought a bit more about this over the week and what if Boat A feels they were on the Broad Reach side of Beam Reach. Does this change things? i.e. should Boat B be lifting and passing behind Boat A? Also when is Boat A required to be the Stand On boat? Is this from a set distance, the tack or some other point?

[Island Time 1,228]

Does not change anything. A vessel, is required to make her intentions clear from when it is first apparent that a crossing situation is approaching.

Boat A should have held her course until B was passed.

[Stand By 0]

Thanks Island Time for this. Sailor of B thought it was straight forward and Sailor of A thought it was not that simple. I think A feels B should have turned up and gone behind him, but B was fixed on passing below A and it just got worse until they hit. Clearly better communication by both boats would have helped here.

[Island Time 1,228]

In a maritime court, both Skippers likely would be fined for not avoiding a collision. A's fine would be larger for failing to comply with colregs.

[Island Time 1,228]

I see where you are coming from KM, but I thought the sequence went across the page. Both on same tack, B Tacked and bears away to avoid A, A being still on stb. A THEN bears away as well, turning to port, towards B.

Turn to Port, see you in court!

Unless I have the sequence wrong....

[harrytom 642]

Boat B tacked and once completed was pointing just below Boat A, but now on port.

 

Boat B has no rights and must keep clear.

 

As the boats got closer Boat A beared away as did Boat B. Contact was made and Boat B has a hole at the bow on the port Side.

 

Boat A bears away so did boat B,my understanding boat A must hold its course as boat B initially beared away.

[Fish 0]

As I read it boat A did everything legally as per the rule and at every instance a collision risk came into play she took actions to remove it. Boat B effectively did the opposite by almost hunting A and in doing so negated A's collision avoidance actions.

 

Boat A turned to port, twice. If the situation is two boats approaching head on, you need to turn to starboard. As the stand on vessel, A should have stood on, if, as you posit, a collision was imminent, and A needed to take avoiding action, then A should have turned to starboard.

 

The same logic you say for A trying to keep clear (two turns to port) also applies equally for B (who was the keep clear vessel), they are required to keep clear, and did so by turning to starboard.

 

So if we accept your point that A didn't need to stand on, as a collision was imminent, (i.e. she was obliged to take avoiding action), that action should have been to starboard (for boats approaching head on). B did that. A didn't. If they both turned to starboard (at any of the times she turned to port), then the collision would have been avoided.

 

Its all fairly clear as per the ColRegs.

Granted, internet versions of what happened may or may not be an accurate reflection of what actually happened on the water, along with A's honest appreciation of what happened is most likely different to B's honest appreciation of what happened). Nevertheless, the ColRegs account for those vagaries with fairly simple requirements, stand on vessel must stand on, if approaching head on, then turn to starboard.

[harrytom 642]

It is just a plain case of poor seamanship. I am in the right and thats that

Collision regs always over rules racing rules

 

 Paul Elvstrom Explains The Racing Rules Of Sailing, Elvstrom notes:

‘Remember that if you are racing and meet another boat racing, these Racing Rules apply. It does not matter if the boats are in different races. If you are not sure that the other boat is racing, then the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea apply, which all normal shipping has to recognise. These regulations always take precedence if there is any doubt. The Colregs regarding Traffic Separation Schemes also always apply when racing under the racing rules.