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Mono Heel fatigue vs Catamaran SLAP, oh to dream canter keel cruiser


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#11 Island Time

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 09:04 AM

Cazzette the JP54 was designed and built in Tauranga for John-Pierre Dick a french ocean racer. Website here https://www.jpdick-yachts.com/

 

As for the comfort of cats, I did a delivery of a 50 foot cruising cat to Vanuatu a few months ago and was shocked at how uncomfortable it was in a seaway. I have sailed on smaller monohulls all my life and thought that it would be more comfortable and faster than a 35 foot racing mono. This was simply not the case.

So much leeway in waves that what should have been cracked sheets was on the wind.

Not impressed. Any half decent 50 foot keelboat would have been faster safer and more comfortable.

The cat was great once there with lots of room so horses for courses I guess.

Yep, some of the condo cats are terrible sailing boats. OK downwind, and living at anchor. There are good cats too though, same as there are some very poor sailing mono's and good ones too!


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#12 Black Panther

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 10:27 AM

Wheels I wonder how much leeway you would get on one of these.
Phenomenal lift speed power assisted minimal heel crikey what more could you want in a cruiser.


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#13 Myjane

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 12:11 PM

Just watch them there is a few tipping up at pres
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#14 B00B00

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 05:56 PM

Wheels im not sure I get you here. Are you saying the boat actually lifts to windward and the bow is pointing lower than it actually is heading?
I think it's the opposite. The bow pointing up but the boat sliping sideways to leward. Leeway. Course over ground is lower than the heading.
Or is that what you are meaning?

All the cats we cruised with offshore were pretty comfortable by all accounts but slow. We were rolling alot downwind (which is all we ever did..) but going generally much faster. Any boat is bloody uncomfortable going upwind!

All Mono Hulls, Canting Keel included, heel unless going down wind. That is why the Hull has such a shape as it does. It acts as a wing in the water, along with the Keel and Rudder, to give the Boat "lift". If you have ever watched a Sailboat coming toward you, you will notice the Boat actually sails slightly side ways. Apart from down wind, no Sailing Mono hull points directly in the direction it is headed. It is in fact being "lifted"in the direction it is headed and the Bow will always point slightly down wind.


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#15 wheels

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 06:26 PM

You are exactly right BooBoo. My dyslexia (honest) letting me down again. I should have said the Bow will always point slightly upwind. The Hull and Keel is lifting the boat forward. I am not saying the Hull and keel do all the work though. Of course we all know how the wind/sail/keel work. I just find that many don't understand that the Hull shape has a lot to do with it as well and that a mono hull actually has to heel over to present the correct shape, being that of a wing.


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#16 darkside

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 08:00 PM

The speed advantage of a lighter cat gets old pretty quick.

We were faster than virtually every mono cruiser when we went around but what's the point?

We got beaten in the Musket - Vila by 90 minutes by a 60' composite Warwick from Hong Kong with eight blokes on board.

We were a 46' relatively light cat (Grainger) with me, my wife and two sons aged 6 and 8.

We were first boat in in the Darwin - Bali, having been roughly last when the wind started on day two.

 

Not sure if we ever really tried after that.

To go fast downhill on a Cat you have to charge off at big angles and cover a lot of miles.

By the time we hit the Atlantic we went with two head sails unless we had some angle to work with.

Slower sure, but way easier.

As Booboo said every one cruising avoids up wind if you can.

For a boat with mini keels we could go up hill OK, but always went slow for comfort.

90% of cruising is at rest and the cat wins every time, unless you have to pay to park it.


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#17 DrWatson

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 08:53 PM

When we were in Greece last year, I rowed over to a larger cruising condo cat and said hello when I noticed they were flying a NZ maritime flag off the port spreader. I guess it was probably 12m? maybe 13m?

 

They had two families aboard and it was pretty comfortable, but were somewhat disappointed with the boat speed. Said something like downwind they nearly hit 10 knts running angles in a 20-22 knt breeze. Upwind and reaching it was slow, apparently. They did have plenty of space and cold beer though, that was nice :)

 

Also noticed many other charter cats would simply motor sail everywhere, regardless of the wind. The charter market likely accounts for a fair chunk of the sales for the cruising cats, and it seems the design briefs follow that part of the market.


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#18 Steve Pope

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 10:07 PM

My time in the Med there was either too much wind (Melteme / Mistral, etc. etc. ) or just not enough. Motoring at least 50% of the time.


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#19 Frank

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 06:48 AM

Doing a coastal classic a few years back on a 38 ft performance cruising cat ( Mini Keels and  CB's) we did 12Kn hard on the wind but pointed several degrees lower than a Cav 32 which was abeam.The Cav had a newish wardrobe and I presume was making about 6kn, our SOG worked out to be the same as the Cav. 

 

The Lagoon 40 I hired with some work colleagues in 2014 (Belize) sailed like a barge but once the anchor was down it was pure cruising luxury !

 

As Darkside says 90% of cruising is at rest and that is where the cat wins outright.

 

My mate says the only person who enjoys going to windward is the one with the helm. :-)


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#20 MarkMT

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 08:16 AM

My mate says the only person who enjoys going to windward is the one with the helm. :-)

 

Singlehanders are smiling.


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