shanson 0 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 I need to replace some of my through-hulls and thought I would go all out and do it properly. anyone know where I can get a proper seacock like this... Cheers SHANE Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Pope 243 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Try they are supposed to be the agents for Groco.. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Mate!!!! make sure you are sitting down when they give you the price. Personally I would be going for Hanson, which are a very robust Nylon or Marlon, which are the fibre/resin material and vertually bullet proof. Link to post Share on other sites
shanson 0 Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 Hmm ok. I've got a couple of those on the boat already, but I've also got a couple of Dodgy ones! Where can I find the Hanson ones? SHANE Link to post Share on other sites
tuffyluffy 76 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Hmm ok. I've got a couple of those on the boat already, but I've also got a couple of Dodgy ones! Where can I find the Hanson ones? SHANE If you want them at the non marine price, Pipeline on Rosebank or Patiki Road, Avondale Link to post Share on other sites
shanson 0 Posted August 8, 2011 Author Share Posted August 8, 2011 Thanks Interestingly enough, these are what the marine chandlers sell as marine valves and they have some marine rating but I'd be interested to know what others (Especially PaulR ) Thinks of these and the best way to install them? http://www.hansenproducts.co.nz/product ... V-size.htm SHANE Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Fosters? (downtown Akl) Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 Try smacking the Hanson one with a big hammer then smack the Bronze one with a hammer. You will happily go for the Hanson oine. The only downside is that the Hansons are a physically big size. Link to post Share on other sites
NevP 0 Posted August 8, 2011 Share Posted August 8, 2011 There has been a lot of discussion about substandard material used in sea-cocks in the last few issues of Yachting Monthly (UK). Apparently the European standards only require sea-cocks to have a 5 year life There have been cases of severe dezincification, sea-cocks failing and boats sinking. I don't have any knowledge myself, or whether it's an issue in NZ but there are a couple of related articles here; http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/plus/527 ... ock-checks http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/news/525 ... ock-safety Could be something to consider if looking at cheaper options. Link to post Share on other sites
PaulR 3 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Well I wrote a wonderful, IMHO, reply but when I went to post it, it disappeared . . . totally. So here is another attempt. 1). Firstly you need to decide what type of hull finish you wish to end up with. Cruisers can and do accept many bumps, holes, patches, fill-ins where as, racing yachts want a smooth bottom with minimum drags. So just before KM gets to excited, we will return to boat stuff. Therefore there is a choice between your pictured bolt on skin fitting with a hole and 3 bumps on the outside of the hull, the common mushroom head and the “ultra smooth sexy no dragging flush finish” called expensive. The first two can be converted to flush by rebating, filling, sanding, filling, sanding, filling, sanding, and painting x 5+ coats (sealer, primer, undercoat, antifoul x 2 or more) called a long job that costs a lot more in money and energy. Having good thick backing plates is essential to stop movement when the hull twists, broaches or leaping out of the water, in hot tropical waters or cold iceberg areas. I prefer ONE hole in the hull, rather than FOUR. Why create 3 extra sources of leaks? Further your pictured valve is only held towards the inside of the hull by 3 bolts. By comparison, the mushroom type skin fitting is pushed IN from the outside of the hull and EACH and EVERY wave that you hit, pushes the skin fitting in too, if it can. We used to make our own flush valve fittings that screwed onto standard skin fittings. We made a plug with “O” rings etc on a long rod, which had 4 turns threaded at each end. Closed was closed and the plug made a beautiful smooth finish on the outside of the hull. The mushroom skin fitting has turbulence = drag created by having a 25mm x 100mm hole filling and empting of water as one sailed. Smooth = NO DRAG. To open, one unscrewed 4 turns, then pulled the rod / plunger up 100mm or so, then screwed the plug into the top of the valve to remain open. The inlet hose barb came off at 30 or 45 degrees. So we used mainly standard fittings and only really had to make the threaded plunger part. 2). The next choice is location on the hull. Traditionally the toilet waste goes out on the port (inferior) side of the keel and the sea water inlet is on the starboard (superior) side, with the hope that there is NO recycling, and by using the wind, current or tide, (or just hope) means all floats aft, separated by the solid keel. Many boat builders fit the seacocks where they think it’s good, then build joinery over, around, above and below the seacock. What read plans?? Forget that for most of them unless closely supervised, nice enough chaps that they are. I would recommend placing all sea skin fittings and gate valves where they can be easily worked on by at least 2 or more people at the same time, with lots of tool room for your largest shifting spanners & pipe wrenches, headroom and sunlight above them to see what you all end up fumbling with. Another aim is to minimise problems by minimising the number of skin fittings. The less you have the less you need to fix or replace. Some advocate one sea water inlet to the see-through or windowed strainer, then internally branching to the engine, toilet, sink, hand basin etc. STARBOARD SIDE ! Likewise cockpit drains, bilge pumps, and exhaust are best in the transom. There is a much reduced risk of back flooding, hydraulic pumping sea water into the engine, in a heavy storm (beyond gales) in the many knock downs you will encounter and survive. YNZ Safety Regs are easier if the transom is used for outlets, especially if wooden plugs are tied on. Sensible stuff. Further they are easier in most boats to replace without having to slip and dismantle all internal furniture. 3). I don’t know the current legal requirements. We now have SSM (Small Ship Management) as opposed to surveyed vessels. In any event, there was a requirement for surveyed vessels to have only metal (possibly only bronze) skin fittings both for strength, reliability and lack of corrosion. Early plastics failed and easily melted if there was an engine room fire. These days the modern glass filled nylons are certainly harder and seem very strong. However bear this in mind because you may also want to check the AYBA rules if you end up selling your boat in the USA, the CE Rules for Europe. The nylon fittings certainly have solved most of the corrosion, electrolysis and strength issues. 4). The valves should go immediately onto the skin fitting. Ideally in a straight line so you can push a stick / dowel / sawn off broom handle / bolt / screwdriver / boat hook plain end etc. down to clear any blockage, especially as there are more plastic bags in our oceans than ever before. No way would I want a solid metal elbow on the skin fitting BEFORE the valve. Too hard to clean and you cannot remove the elbow at sea if necessary. Why make potential problems for yourself. Life is hard enough already!! KISS!! Google seacocks: Lots of good info & interesting look at the IMAGES. Look at the corrosion when mixing brass with bronze. Using the cheaper housing ball valves saves a lot of money until you drown in your sleep. Interestingly how the entire ball wore out, and in one so young Also I would align the lever handles so that when ON, they are in line with the HOSE, not the skin fitting as in the picture. Other Good info. See the first picture in: http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/replacing_thruhulls See alternative unblocking ideas: http://www.blastitout.com/description.html 5). Most people do not know how to open and close gate valves. CLOSED is CLOSED, CLOCKWISE, TIGHT but not forced. OPEN is fully opened then back one turn. If you need to force it, you need to service it ASAP. So if you put a hand on a valve and it moves slightly, then it is open. Half the population do NOT know this. This is knot a sexist remark as there are many mechanically capable female sailors and equally many inland and mountain men who have never seen the ocean. One can always add an additional ball valve anywhere in a hose line and these certainly make the operation of the mysterious marine toilet easier. Like wise a ball valve under the sink outlet means the gremlins onboard have lost the ability to hide the only sink plug. This also stops that gurgle interrupting your afternoon nap. 6). Colour Coded levers is a great idea. link 7). And now the answer. Have you tried General Marine Services Ltd Ph:+64 9 309 6317 Fax:+64 9 309 6897 Email: sales@generalmarine.co.nz 196 Pakenham Street West, Westhaven; Opposite Orams Dry Stack building. They have a wonderful range of nice bits and pieces and they even allow you to play with all the parts, free of charge. It may well cure your newly acquired ball valve fetish, but I recommend you continue taking your meds. Give me a call in you want me to visit you. Time I inspected your efforts. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites
Absolution 7 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 ...and if you want some really nice seacocks that close completely flush with the hull: http://fairfit.co.nz/page10.htm Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Oh those seacocks, Sorry I thought you were talking about fizz nasty drivers. Link to post Share on other sites
shanson 0 Posted August 9, 2011 Author Share Posted August 9, 2011 Thanks PaulR thats abosolutely perfect! Currently I have WAAAYYY too many holes in the Hull, I like the idea of blocking some off and teeing connections from there! Cheers SHANE Link to post Share on other sites
PaulR 3 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Oh those seacocks, Sorry I thought you were talking about fizz nasty drivers. Obviously you are KNOT colour coded!! right cock Link to post Share on other sites
PaulR 3 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 ...and if you want some really nice seacocks that close completely flush with the hull: http://fairfit.co.nz/page10.htm Thanks Fineline. Yes but we made our with a 30 or 45 degree outlet so that we could still push a screw driver through to clear plastic bags and blockages. Worst case senario and problem avoidence thinking. The above ones are at 90 degrees = harder to clear if you have to. They may have others but I only looked at Fineline's link. However on the plus side there is only a $10 price difference between 3 zes which implies nicely to my bitter twisted GOM brain, that the major cost is in the machining as expected and not on the size of the fittings. So on that basis alone, knowing that all things cost heaps, the pricing stucture seems reasonable, expensive but reasonable. They look good so, pay up and be happy. I wish I was on commission but as yet have nothing to do with them. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted August 9, 2011 Share Posted August 9, 2011 Currently I have WAAAYYY too many holes in the Hull, I like the idea of blocking some off and teeing connections from there! It's called "Sea Chest" Shane and a great idea...But!!!! It needs to be a bigger through hull than you would normally have had. Shouldn't be a problem in your situation I expect. I would think your engine intake would be a 3/4", so an 1 1/2" should be a good size. This is so you have no "vaccum" that would cause water to be taken away from the engine cooling pump, or the engine pump sucking water from the toilet yadda yadda yadda. Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Pope 243 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Have just seen a european design, proffesionally built, with 16 through hull below the waterline. I suggested replacing dodgy bronze SS ball v/v's with Hanson ones but the owner would accept nothing except bronze. The old ones were quite pink in places and the balls appeared to be plated with the plating coming off. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 If Bronze are going pink, then he has or has had an issue with electrolysis. Either at some stage an anode was not replaced, or he did no have the through hulls bonded or it was a poor bond. Properly bonded and Anodes kept up, Bronze will never dezinc. Chrome Plated Bronze is a complete wast of time. Link to post Share on other sites
shanson 0 Posted August 10, 2011 Author Share Posted August 10, 2011 Squid Let me know if this breaks any forum rules! So me and PaulR popped down to General Marine to have a look at their fittings, they have a HUGE selectaion and exactly what I was looking for. pretty good pricing too. (BTW I have no connection to them) SHANE Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 10, 2011 Share Posted August 10, 2011 Not breaking the rules, but when you are there tell them it's because of a thread on Crew.org.nz. maybe they'll see the light and take out an ad Link to post Share on other sites
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