Battgirl 23 Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 No surprise theres bug in the diesel tank. The 2 fuel filters prevent it affecting the engine for now but in researching the options for eradication I found the 2007 Practical Boat Owner test of 10 diesel bug treatments. Two, Marine 16 and GrotaMar 71 give a complete kill in 3hrs of putting in the tank, prevent regrowth for at least 14 days and also improve filterability. Smart Marine stock GrotaMar71. At $99 for 500ml which will treat 500litres its money well spent in my view assuming it works in my boat. I will report if it doesn't. Eradicate, Kathon FP1.5, Fortron and Star Brite biodiesel also worked but didn't improve filterability. Other products tested were Fuel Doctor, Fuel Set, Soltron, Cyrus marine. Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 We had deisel bug. To clarify, do you want a treatment to prevent occurance, or you have it and want to know how to get rid of it? If you have it and want to get rid of it, I'm sorry to be depressing, but you need to hook that tank out, if it doesn't have an inspection port already, cut a hole in it and physically clean it. If you already have an insepction port you could probably clean it in situ. The problem with bug is the biomass. Its the dead bug that blocks filters. If you had two super dooper filters, and you can swap from one to the other with valving, then you could just leave it and change your filters a lot. You wont ever get the tank clean though so this would be a never ending story... I wouldn't recommend it. I think we use Fuel Set to prevent occurance. Repco sold us a deisel additive when our usual one wasn't stocked. Turned out it improved performance and did nothing about bug, hence our issue with bug Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Alfloc is excellent and also one from Supercheap believe it or not. I can't remember the name, although it starts with a C I think. It also kills the stuff and doeses a huge quantity for not a lot of dollars. Don't go buying the expensive stuff. Biocides for Algae is not expensive and it tends to be fairly much the same stuff in all of the various products. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I know what is does......but what is "Diesel Bug" exactly. Is it a living organism? (Pretty impressive if it can survive in a diesel environment).....or is it some chemical reaction....? Link to post Share on other sites
rigger 47 Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I know what is does......but what is "Diesel Bug" exactly. Is it a living organism? (Pretty impressive if it can survive in a diesel environment).....or is it some chemical reaction....? an organisim that lives at the diesel water interface according to a course I did years ago. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Two types. One is Algae and the other is Bacteria. It is not really a Bug as such. Link to post Share on other sites
Battgirl 23 Posted September 16, 2011 Author Share Posted September 16, 2011 As rigger said it forms at the water-fuel interface. PBO say its a cocktail of bacteria, yeasts and moulds that feeds on dissolved oxygen and nutrients in the fuel. This creates more water and a slime forms which blocks the filters. As Fish said the tank needs to be cleaned. This is because the sludge/biomass is an acid byproduct created by the bacteria which can eat the walls of steel tanks. Yikes! PBO believe that the reason GrotaMar 71 and Marine 16 improve filtration is because they break down this sludge. I'm going to put the GrotaMar in the tank and when the fuel level is a bit lower, open the tank up, check it and clean it out if there's any sludge left. Thankfully access is good. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 The bacterea and Algae, when in a "live state" will go right through filters. They won't cause any damage to anything, because they are so small, but they will stick to both sides of the filter element and then happily grow there also and so you can end up with a sludge on the suposedly filtered side of the filter. Another simple fix, is to make sure you have a good water trap and most importantly, a place that the water can run to in your tank so as you can bleed it off, or so it is run to the filter/water trap. No water, no "bug", pure and simple. Also no rust in the bottom of the tank. "Bug" is not just a Fuel problem, but a problem with any hydrocarbon when water is present. We have a big issue with cooling/cutting fluids in Lathe's and other metal working machines using water soluble oils. Being able to maintain a cleen cutting/cooling fluid is a very important aspect of any soluble oil mix. When the stuff goes off, blimey can it stink. Link to post Share on other sites
Battgirl 23 Posted September 16, 2011 Author Share Posted September 16, 2011 Thanks for that Wheels. As usual you make a lot of sense. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Competely Forgot. Moorey's. They have a Fuel treament additive that is cheap and works just great for killing the bug and has a reasonabley high ltr treatment ratio. Link to post Share on other sites
Grinna 2 Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 What's the opinion on the fuel treatment units that are basically a magnetic field? They look like a small filter and the advertising says that they pass the fuel through a strong magnetic field and it causes the cell walls of the bacteria and mould to rupture and die and the munted cells can then go through your injectors and be burned in the engine as part of the combustion process without any issues (unless you have ultra fine injectors like the new common rail designs). From a biological point of view it sounds feasible, but part of my brain is screaming "snake oil!". I'll probably fit a unit in our boat anyway because one fell into my hands for a ridiculously cheap price and there's a possibility it will help with low level infections. Are they something that is worth investing in? Link to post Share on other sites
PaulR 3 Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 Kiwi Yachting stand at boat show had magnetic devices PLUS an ULTRA VIOLET device that kills the bugs, can process 300 ltr/he IIRC. Problem is most yachts sit around for days between use with partially filled tanks, damp night air, condensation, open breather vents = water in tanks eventually somehow. I have a couple of impressive samples in bottles if you want to see for yourself. One was the draining of the primary filter. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 ....part of my brain is screaming "snake oil!"........(ed).......one fell into my hands for a ridiculously cheap price.... That sounds like your answer right there to me. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Yep Snake Oil and Hens teeth. There is nothing magnetic in cells. If there was, anyone that was in a MRI scanner would be torn apart. Notice that all these Magnetic fuel treatment guys have some other form of killing the bug as well. Like the UV light. That will kill some of it anyway. I am not completely sure about Algae and yeast, but it should kill Bacteria. As for a magnetic field then breaking down anything to go right though the filter is complete madness. I think the ones selling these things are probably just selling a product due to the story they have been told. I doubt any of them actually realise it is snake oil. As for the idiot actually making these things, they are either idiots or scammers. But here ya go Grinna, we could do a little scientific testing. I have some gunge in the bottom of my filter I have to drain off tomorrow. I could bottle it and we could run it through this mag filter and see if it comes out the otherside any different. Link to post Share on other sites
Noodles 0 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Yep Snake Oil and Hens teeth. There is nothing magnetic in cells. If there was, anyone that was in a MRI scanner would be torn apart. Notice that all these Magnetic fuel treatment guys have some other form of killing the bug as well. Like the UV light. That will kill some of it anyway. I am not completely sure about Algae and yeast, but it should kill Bacteria. As for a magnetic field then breaking down anything to go right though the filter is complete madness. I think the ones selling these things are probably just selling a product due to the story they have been told. I doubt any of them actually realise it is snake oil. As for the idiot actually making these things, they are either idiots or scammers. But here ya go Grinna, we could do a little scientific testing. I have some gunge in the bottom of my filter I have to drain off tomorrow. I could bottle it and we could run it through this mag filter and see if it comes out the otherside any different. I agree 100% with you on that one wheels. the magnetic thing is bull sh*t. In my opinion those fuel treatment products don't work very well. The best idea is a couple of good filters with water traps and cleaning the tank out properly, and trying to keep it full so condensation can not accumulate in the tank. Link to post Share on other sites
Gappy 9 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 This is an interesting thread and obviously some sceptics in here as to how things work and I must say I did think it was a bit gimmick before we got involved with it at work. We have done some quite extensive testing of both the magnet and UV products and have one which is combined with a water trap and a cycle pump as Paul mentioned above. But the test have been done by the Auckland Uni and a independent lab and they are pretty impressive the magnet devices do work but the UV is the one that does the killing. The problem isn't condensation that gets into the tank its the water that is in the fuel when you pump it in from the bowser. We have yet to get a clean A grade fuel sample from a service station. Once bugs in your tank you really do need to clean it out like cut it open and clean it after that the trick is keeping it out and thats where a fuel cycling system comes in. If anyone wants to chat about it more drop me a line. Cheers Gappy Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 But the test have been done by the Auckland Uni and a independent lab and they are pretty impressive the magnet devices do work but the UV is the one that does the killing. Complete utter rubbish. Look very closely at what tests were donbe and how they were done and the actual results. Do the tests yourself with the Filters and the UV lamps removed. Just cycle the fuel through the magnet only. Nothing else. Infact, the only thing that disturves the fuel is the turbulance. The magnetic field does nothing. If you want to test this in another way, use an Electromagnetic field. With that, you can measure the current that creates the field. Anything that can change in a magnetic field, will cause a current change in the magnetic field. So if contamination can be altered, you will see the Current alter as well. Trust me, It does not!!!! I have played with Cell disruption for quite sometime. Ask Dr Watson, he can confirm that. Trust me, if I could have broken down Cells of anything using a magnet, I would have turned the industry I was in on it's head. the only way we could disrupt a Cell with anything close to a magnetic force, (in other words, some invisable external energy source) was using high intenisty Sound waves. And the power and energy required was unbelievable. Let me explain this a little differently. And this is just in a very simplified expanation OK. The only way you could disrupt a cell using a magnetic force, would be to pull the very atoms themselevs apart. There is nothing else magnetic in a Cell. Only the very atoms that make up the Molecules use an Electrical Polaity to hold themseleves all together. The Molecules are Polarised with a charge. You would have to disrupt that Electrical charge. The next problem with that is that lets say iot could happen. The particles would be so attracted to the Magnet, the thing would block up pretty well instantly as all the Molicles would now be attracted to the Magnet. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Complete utter rubbish. Couldn't have said it better myself Wheels. Link to post Share on other sites
Grinna 2 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 Well, despite the view that magnetic fields can't possibly help in the fight against diesel bug, I'm still kinda tempted to fit this magnetic device. There is a distinct possibility that we'll be putting diesel in our tanks that is of less than perfect quality (hell, that happens in Auckland let alone out in the middle of nowhere). Although we dose our tanks with bug killer we've still got it, and will still get it, to a degree. Diesel bug, as part of its biological processes produces acids that can cause corrosion in fuel tanks. I'm replacing fuel hose anyway so its no real hassle to insert this thing in the line and if there's a chance that a magnetic device could capture fragments of disintegrating tank, that's probably a good thing. Whether it will do anything effective against diesel bug or not, it may prevent swarf from getting to the filter (where it would be caught anyway). Without at least looking at the test results in support of magnetic treatment I won't dismiss it completely. My gut feeling is it probably won't do anything positive but its most unlikely to do anything negative either. Intellectually, I know that homeopathy can't work, yet I've seen it help people .... and even a placebo effect is still an effect. So, I'll probably throw it in and see if the psychedelic vortices of good karma and positive energy meridians that envelop our boat will, like, ya know, bring on some positive vibes and stuff man. Can't hurt*. * I'll be getting the compass swung after this gizmo gets installed, so ... Link to post Share on other sites
tuffyluffy 76 Posted September 19, 2011 Share Posted September 19, 2011 http://www.biomag.co.nz/ Interesting, so if im reading this thread correctly, i'll kill diesel bug and get drug free pain relief all at the same time? Link to post Share on other sites
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