Penalty for hitting another boat

[johnMi 2]

Now I know that you are in the wrong, and want to be clear on what to do if you hit another boat before the start.

A. before the five minutes

B. Before the 1 min

C. Before the gun

You are not racing before the start, so do you do your turns before the start and if so how many turns, or do you do your turns after the start and how many.

 

Another thing, Doing a jibe and ending up on the other board, does that constitute a turn.

 

Thanks

John

[PaulR 3]

Off the top of my head, because my Racing Rules are in my kit bag and it's DARK outside

 

You are "racing" at the 4 minute signal = "P" Prepare to start. A lot of clubs have an additional rule that motors cannot be used for propulsion from then unless you do a penalty e.g. Westhaven go to west side of bridge & switch off.

 

A turn consists of one tack and one gybe. Rule 42 IIRC.

 

SHOUT a warning, then shout PROTEST and display a Red Flag ASAP.

[Guest]

Off the top of my head, because my Racing Rules are in my kit bag and it's DARK outside

 

You are "racing" at the 4 minute signal = "P" Prepare to start. A lot of clubs have an additional rule that motors cannot be used for propulsion from then unless you do a penalty e.g. Westhaven go to west side of bridge & switch off.

 

A turn consists of one tack and one gybe. Rule 42 IIRC.

 

SHOUT a warning, then shout PROTEST and display a Red Flag ASAP.

 

G'day 'P-R' Well said & thanks. John - go & buy a rule book for Gawds sake, then read it until you know what the rules are. Please do that before going back out to race. I'm - gob-smacked that you don't know the rules off by heart. IMHO - you should. Ciao, james

[Guest]

He knows more than most out there.

 

You don't have to shout Protest or anything, but if you have the chance it is good to draw the other boats attention to your flag. You also have to inform the other boat at the earliest opportunity you are protesting. 'See you in the protest room you w^&#$@r', will do the job

[johnMi 2]

Thanks PaulR, and Knotme, I know that you should call protest, and explain breifly what you are protesting about, protest flag etc.

I'm looking from the other end.

If I hit a boat in the prestart, how do I exonerate myself.

And I respectfully ask you, (and others) Silver Raven to tell me, cos once again my frailties let me down. I have not got my Rulebook at home with me and cannot remember if I should

A. Do nothing, as there are different rules for before the start

B. Do your turns immediately

C. Do your turns after the start

D. Or just go home, you're having a bad day and chances are they are not gonna get better

This is a forum, for such queries, so I thought there maybe some young guns that may be able to help me.

(Not criticising your 'wisdom beyond yrs' PR and KM, but things do become hazy at our age, huh)

[Fish 0]

I normally check for damage and call the insurance company. JH's just checks for damage.

[Guest]

turns after crossing start line

[johnMi 2]

thanks jumping jack, what rule, do you know?

[Guest]

Thanks PaulR, and Knotme, I know that you should call protest, and explain breifly what you are protesting about, protest flag etc.

Only the protest flag part is compulsory, the rest are good to do given the chance but knot essential. Knot sure what rule number it is, I don't have a book but will suss.

 

If fronted with a situation I just call out some random number in a very authoritative sounding voice and end it with 'so get the hell outta there before I ping you'. 98% of the time the other boat will bail out. Easy 50% of those didn't need to but hey, we're all good so don't care if they don't know the rules

 

Try calling Stb on the Squaddy Youth Fleet, even if they are on Stb and you aren't. Done it 3 times now and each time they have tacked away. Naughty I know but seriously funny

Note: They must be learning by now so if you try that do be prepared to give room as you should.

[BvanVugt 0]

Try calling Stb on the Squaddy Youth Fleet, even if they are on Stb and you aren't. Done it 3 times now and each time they have tacked away. Naughty I know but seriously funny

 

Haha thats brilliant, id love to see the looks on their faces once they've thought about it after for a moment

[bene_sails 0]

i think that is more about not getting the very expensive, and very not our boats away from potential collisions.

plus most of the boats that went out during the winter series were chartered by squadron members, and not helmed by the youth programme.

come out for a fleet racing day and see if we submit to a port tacker

[johnMi 2]

Say what you like about those young guys from the squadron, but when we gave them a ride some months back, they were amazing, handled the screecher, and Kite, no issues at all, 1st time out! And they were very busy short races.

[johnMi 2]

Only the protest flag part is compulsory, the rest are good to do given the chance but knot essential. Knot sure what rule number it is, I don't have a book but will suss.

 

Don't think that's right KM

4 or 5 yrs back I was in a protest at the BMW regatta. I was asked what was the 1st thing said. I blurted on about what I said and he said "Did you say I protest or words to that meaning" I said no not exactly and he said "Right, protest thrown out". I lost the protest solely on that point.

[PaulR 3]

You must do BOTH of TWO things.

 

The rule says 1). "SHOUT PROTEST"

 

AND yes that is "AND" meaning at the same time, do "BOTH" things

 

2). "DISPLAY PROTEST FLAG" ASAP,

unless flag already flying

 

Had a protest this year dismissed for NOT showing a flag, even though the other boat could never have seen it AND interestingly, was NOT seen by Finishing Committee Boat and not noted on result sheets.

 

All of KM's other words, discussing the unproven sexual preferences, unknown parentage and supposedly pompus attitude are irrelevant and unnecessary, unless you are correct of course

[PaulR 3]

Try calling Stb on the Squaddy Youth Fleet, even if they are on Stb and you aren't. Done it 3 times now and each time they have tacked away. Naughty I know but seriously funny

 

Haha thats brilliant, id love to see the looks on their faces once they've thought about it after for a moment

 

You cannot do this.

Read the ISAF Casebook (Follow YNZ links).

The Casebook gives definative comments on the Racing Rules of Sailing and their interpretation.

 

Good FREE Reading!!

 

CASE 47

A boat that deliberately hails ‘Starboard’ when she knows she is on port tack has not acted fairly, and has broken rule 2.

[smithy09 50]

Try calling Stb on the Squaddy Youth Fleet, even if they are on Stb and you aren't. Done it 3 times now and each time they have tacked away. Naughty I know but seriously funny

 

Haha thats brilliant, id love to see the looks on their faces once they've thought about it after for a moment

 

You cannot do this.

Read the ISAF Casebook (Follow YNZ links).

The Casebook gives definative comments on the Racing Rules of Sailing and their interpretation.

 

Good FREE Reading!!

 

CASE 47

A boat that deliberately hails ‘Starboard’ when she knows she is on port tack has not acted fairly, and has broken rule 2.

Hahaha: Sprung KM!!!

[johnMi 2]

They'll be calling you a cheat next KM

[Guest]

Hey, calm your rolls gentlemen. Every time I've called Stb on the Youth fleet we haven't been racing and only did it for fun. The 1st time was just a 'I wonder if....' and as they did tack away, very much to our amazement, the next 2 times were just to see if they had learned something, apparently knot. I do believe they were probably differing crews aboard each time.

 

If that is a training fleet and they fall for a very very basic rule fiddle like that, more boats need to do it so they learn to be knot so easily fucked with, mind you they are far from alone on that out there point. They are never gonna be Russell Coutt's if they don't know basic port from starboard, they should be thanking me........ as should that somewhat pissed off coach boat on one of the occasions

 

Anyway -

 

Sit 1 -

1 - We flew the flag at the time of the incident and informed the other boat at the earliest opportunity we had that we were protesting them. The other boat acknowledges we informed them we are protesting, that may be on the marina right after the race. We may or may knot have shouted at the time, given the opportunity we would also shout, wave or try to draw the other boats attention to the protest flag.

2 - Paul flew the flag and shouted at the time. A day later we get informed Paul is protesting us.

 

Two situations and I'd far rather walk into a protest room having done No1 than No 2 as we can prove No1 but Paul can't prove No2. Paul loses and has to shout the bar

 

Sit 2 -

3 - We see Paul going inside Motu Red, a fairway mark. We fly the flag and shout. Paul doesn't hear us as he's 1.27nm away. We inform Paul later when we meet at the YC of our protest. Paul says bugger off you are dreaming, shout me a beer.

2 - Paul sees us go inside Motu Red. Flys his flag and shouts. We never hear or see a thing then 2 days later get a note saying it's Protest time @ ...

 

Same situation handled in 2 differing ways. No3 will provide the Protest Comm no doubt both boats knew a protest was on. Would No4 do the same? Arguable I'd say. Paul loses and has to shout the bar

 

They'll be calling you a cheat next KM

Have been a few times already John. But sadly all were proved wrong, once or twice in a very very embarrassing way

 

I firmly believe cheats are only fooling themselves, no one else. A victory due to cheating is only a hollow victory. Hollow victories are for hollow shallow deluded people with fucked up personal mental issues.

 

I'm now off to buy a rule book.............. just in case

[B00B00 310]

I think you will find the youth training program fleet generally sails to a VERY high standard. In fact I would say a YTP crew would probably beat the best team we could put together out of any of the regular posters on this site! There are ytp teams representing nz at all or most of the international youth regattas around the world and generally are known to be the teams to beat. If guys like adam minoprio can come straight out of the ytp and win the world matchrace title then that's a pretty good idea of the level.

Its allways drilled into them to keep clear of any other racing yachts regardless of who's in the right or wrong, many people out there who are reaching through a ytp fleet race or match race just expect the boats that are only 'training' to get out of their way and write some quitye amusing letter to the squaddy about it. So badically you could yell pretty much anything at them and the chances are they will let you go unless its a critical position in the race. Its not worth the hassle of an unhappboat owner who blams the 'training' fleet for his bad race.

When it comes to boathandling in extreme weather, sail choices and tactics then that's where experience comes in so they are still learning (although many of them are still very good at that), but basic rules- they are well past that level.

 

I'm sure they could organise the spare boat for anyone who wants to go and take them on.

[johnMi 2]

Agree BooBoo, and as I said previously, I was VERY impressed with their skills.