Jump to content

Beserk 2?


grant

Recommended Posts

Guest Crafty 1

Come in Pwederell, Where are you? i know you are lurking.

 

try and defend all theses "scientific bases" and thier "clean geen foot print" and without bagging me or the Viking.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Using the wrongs of many to defend the wrongs of one does not make the wrongs of the one ok.

 

Quite right rigger, but Crafty's point is that a certain person harps on about the Vikings small fuel spill while ignoring and even defending the wrongs of the "official" polluters. OK he had an accident with some fuel and spilt it near the reverse osmosis intake and should have cleaned it up. But for 40 years Scott Base discharged its raw untreated sewage straight into the sea, and for the later years it was within 100 metres of its own reverse osmosis intake. Despite protests from the scientific community about the damage and alteration to the aquatic environment and despite a number of scares as nasty bugs got in the system this wasn't rectified until a few years ago.

 

The current protocols STILL permit bases to discharge raw sewage with the result that superbugs have now been detected near the outfall of at least one base - see New Scientist Report, January 2012 "Bacteria that resist nearly all antibiotics have been found in seawater off Antarctic research stations, probably arriving there through human....."

 

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2 ... coast.html

 

Every supply flight to antarctica (and there are over 400 per year to all bases) deposits a film of carbon and hydro carbon particles over the "virgin ice" that the Viking is accused of damaging. Every tonne of aviation fuel burnt produces more than 1kg of particulate carbon that settles on the land and no-one cleans that up. The deposits around McMurdo's airfield are measurable.

 

The quad bike expedition to the south pole was just one of many similar events (call them stunts if you want) undertaken in the last year to celebrate the 100 year anniversary of Amunsdsen and Scott. There were so many a special campsite was setup at the south pole to accommodate them away from the station there. Here are the pics

 

http://www.southpolestation.com/1112/12photos1.html

 

There were monster trucks heading to the pole, weird things on skis with props behind the drivers, kite skiers, kite sledges, and plenty of others. All of these things were officially allowed. Sure the Viking did not have his permit and caused a little damage but pwederell needs to keep this in perspective and stop treating him as the worlds most wanted.

 

Crafty can be a little over the top, but his main points are valid and I think pwederell needs to understand that there are other informed views that don't conform to those of Antarctic NZ who it sounds like he has performed services for.

 

Before I also get flamed let me say I have worked in Antarctica as a scientist and been at Scott Base and McMurdo, and believe me an alternate view does exist as to why governments spend so much down there.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Crafty 1

pohopetch, thankyoiu for supporting what i have been saying for many posts (and maybe now they will see why i have to repeat myself.), but i am not holding my breath with this mob :wink:

 

There is another view and it differs to pwederells "constant defence" of his mate's and fathers poor governace and record down there. (which may explains pwederells's rude and defencive posts)

 

The sad thing is attitudes like pwederells taint the good work by hiding it behind "rhetoric" and Chest beating under the guise of "scientific research"and a "tenuous treaty". and sure there are a few genuine ones down there but (and what is not told by Pwederell and many) there is cronic abuse by many parties and for pwderell to bag the Viking when he and the others of the past have been far far worse is embarassing for many.

 

So to all those that support pollution in the antartic, support defending the past, support all the bases, fishing and cruise ships... be warned and watch this space (when the 40year agreement falls apart) as nations fight for mineral and oil wealth!

 

but don't believe me.

 

Come in pwederell, Grant, and all the viking baggers!

Link to post
Share on other sites
Before I also get flamed let me say I have worked in Antarctica as a scientist and been at Scott Base and McMurdo, and believe me an alternate view does exist as to why governments spend so much down there.

The big issue in all this is that the real discussion got trampled into the Mud.

First of all, yes there is no denying that Human presence down there does not cause contamination. And there is no denying that in the past, many detrimental mistakes were made. To go back a step first though, the original reason why the various countries that are down there, are down there for, was because of the potential of huge Mineral resorces. A long time ago, many countries were hoping the ribbon was going to be cut on exploring the Antarctic for that wealth and it was believed that the ones that were there when that ribbon was cut, would be the ones allowed to do the digging. So to have a prescence meant your foot was in the door.

But then all those countries signed a treaty to say no one can dig for anything and the emphasis shifted toward Scientific research and the fact that the Countries down there also kind of ensure no one tries to secretly dig behind the back shed unseen.

As Humans "matured" somewhat in the "Green theme", many things have changed in the effort to keep the place pristene. It still has a ways to go, but they are makeing a major effort. All the links that have been thrown in to the posts above are old now. Things are very different and many involved are proud of the effort and determination that is being made. Hence PW responding in the way he did when such remarks had been made.

Sure, there is a ways to go yet. It takes time due to poor budgets, due to the distance to get stuff down there, and due to the limited time that work outside can be carried out. But everyone involved with down there now realise how important the place is, how fragile the place is and how even the smallest thing we do can have a dramatic impact on the place.

But it IS changing. Will it ever be perfect? No.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Using the wrongs of many to defend the wrongs of one does not make the wrongs of the one ok.

 

Quite right rigger, but Crafty's point is that a certain person harps on about the Vikings small fuel spill while ignoring and even defending the wrongs of the "official" polluters. OK he had an accident with some fuel and spilt it near the reverse osmosis intake and should have cleaned it up.

The "small fuel spill" had the potential to destroy the membranes for the Scott Base RO plant and put base staff in jeopardy. Membranes are generally not held in stock due to limited shelf life and this late in the season the results would have been bad.

But for 40 years Scott Base discharged its raw untreated sewage straight into the sea, and for the later years it was within 100 metres of its own reverse osmosis intake. Despite protests from the scientific community about the damage and alteration to the aquatic environment and despite a number of scares as nasty bugs got in the system this wasn't rectified until a few years ago.

True, I was the one who finalised onsite commissioning and operated the new waste water plant for its first 8 months. Treaty conditions stipulated primary treatment (maceration) which NZAP was already doing. RO membranes do not allow bacteria to pass across them so where these "scares" happened I cannot comment.

The current protocols STILL permit bases to discharge raw sewage with the result that superbugs have now been detected near the outfall of at least one base - see New Scientist Report, January 2012 "Bacteria that resist nearly all antibiotics have been found in seawater off Antarctic research stations, probably arriving there through human....."

 

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2 ... coast.html

 

Every supply flight to antarctica (and there are over 400 per year to all bases) deposits a film of carbon and hydro carbon particles over the "virgin ice" that the Viking is accused of damaging. Every tonne of aviation fuel burnt produces more than 1kg of particulate carbon that settles on the land and no-one cleans that up. The deposits around McMurdo's airfield are measurable.

 

The quad bike expedition to the south pole was just one of many similar events (call them stunts if you want) undertaken in the last year to celebrate the 100 year anniversary of Amunsdsen and Scott. There were so many a special campsite was setup at the south pole to accommodate them away from the station there. Here are the pics

 

http://www.southpolestation.com/1112/12photos1.html

 

There were monster trucks heading to the pole, weird things on skis with props behind the drivers, kite skiers, kite sledges, and plenty of others. All of these things were officially allowed. Sure the Viking did not have his permit and caused a little damage but pwederell needs to keep this in perspective and stop treating him as the worlds most wanted.

 

Crafty can be a little over the top, but his main points are valid and I think pwederell needs to understand that there are other informed views that don't conform to those of Antarctic NZ who it sounds like he has performed services for.

Crafty's is not an informed view, he is a troll. My experience on the ice comes from a season commercial fishing before it became un PC, Scott Base engineer and engineering manager, supply and logistics for NYANG supporting South Pole flights and mechanic for the USAP power, water and waste water department. I also have the added perspective of my father (still alive) who was a photographic journalist for the USAP IGY 57-58 so have got second person insight to the then and now

Before I also get flamed let me say I have worked in Antarctica as a scientist and been at Scott Base and McMurdo, and believe me an alternate view does exist as to why governments spend so much down there.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would also like to add to my post that one of the issues with the Viking fellow was that he "polluted" because of carelessness and he didn't care about cleaning up. Where as a great deal more care is taken down there by the ones that are there today and clean up is important.

On the other hand, there is a good debate in questions like,

Do we get everyone to leave the place completely and then lock it up because it is just too fragile and important??

Do we allow everyone the opportunity to see the place?

Do we allow on the privillaged few to go there. Like Scientists and those with lots on money and the free riders called Politicians that go with some lame excuse??

Does Scientific research down there actually answer questions for the rest of the world?

Or is research down there mainly a means of secretly mapping what mineral resources maybe there?

Many more questions and lots of views I am sure.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Crafty 1
Using the wrongs of many to defend the wrongs of one does not make the wrongs of the one ok.

 

Quite right rigger, but Crafty's point is that a certain person harps on about the Vikings small fuel spill while ignoring and even defending the wrongs of the "official" polluters. OK he had an accident with some fuel and spilt it near the reverse osmosis intake and should have cleaned it up.

The "small fuel spill" had the potential to destroy the membranes for the Scott Base RO plant and put base staff in jeopardy. Membranes are generally not held in stock due to limited shelf life and this late in the season the results would have been bad.

But for 40 years Scott Base discharged its raw untreated sewage straight into the sea, and for the later years it was within 100 metres of its own reverse osmosis intake. Despite protests from the scientific community about the damage and alteration to the aquatic environment and despite a number of scares as nasty bugs got in the system this wasn't rectified until a few years ago.

True, I was the one who finalised onsite commissioning and operated the new waste water plant for its first 8 months. Treaty conditions stipulated primary treatment (maceration) which NZAP was already doing. RO membranes do not allow bacteria to pass across them so where these "scares" happened I cannot comment.

The current protocols STILL permit bases to discharge raw sewage with the result that superbugs have now been detected near the outfall of at least one base - see New Scientist Report, January 2012 "Bacteria that resist nearly all antibiotics have been found in seawater off Antarctic research stations, probably arriving there through human....."

 

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2 ... coast.html

 

Every supply flight to antarctica (and there are over 400 per year to all bases) deposits a film of carbon and hydro carbon particles over the "virgin ice" that the Viking is accused of damaging. Every tonne of aviation fuel burnt produces more than 1kg of particulate carbon that settles on the land and no-one cleans that up. The deposits around McMurdo's airfield are measurable.

 

The quad bike expedition to the south pole was just one of many similar events (call them stunts if you want) undertaken in the last year to celebrate the 100 year anniversary of Amunsdsen and Scott. There were so many a special campsite was setup at the south pole to accommodate them away from the station there. Here are the pics

 

http://www.southpolestation.com/1112/12photos1.html

 

There were monster trucks heading to the pole, weird things on skis with props behind the drivers, kite skiers, kite sledges, and plenty of others. All of these things were officially allowed. Sure the Viking did not have his permit and caused a little damage but pwederell needs to keep this in perspective and stop treating him as the worlds most wanted.

 

Crafty can be a little over the top, but his main points are valid and I think pwederell needs to understand that there are other informed views that don't conform to those of Antarctic NZ who it sounds like he has performed services for.

Crafty's is not an informed view, he is a troll. My experience on the ice comes from a season commercial fishing before it became un PC, Scott Base engineer and engineering manager, supply and logistics for NYANG supporting South Pole flights and mechanic for the USAP power, water and waste water department. I also have the added perspective of my father (still alive) who was a photographic journalist for the USAP IGY 57-58 so have got second person insight to the then and now

Before I also get flamed let me say I have worked in Antarctica as a scientist and been at Scott Base and McMurdo, and believe me an alternate view does exist as to why governments spend so much down there.

 

More of the same Chest beating and inane defence of the polluters. "while givning us more insight into how much of the problem you were down there". You just don't get it do you :crazy: :crazy:

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Crafty 1
I would also like to add to my post that one of the issues with the Viking fellow was that he "polluted" because of carelessness and he didn't care about cleaning up. Where as a great deal more care is taken down there by the ones that are there today and clean up is important.

On the other hand, there is a good debate in questions like,

Do we get everyone to leave the place completely and then lock it up because it is just too fragile and important??

Do we allow everyone the opportunity to see the place?

Do we allow on the privillaged few to go there. Like Scientists and those with lots on money and the free riders called Politicians that go with some lame excuse??

Does Scientific research down there actually answer questions for the rest of the world?

Or is research down there mainly a means of secretly mapping what mineral resources maybe there?

Many more questions and lots of views I am sure.

 

nice bit of balance there wheels :thumbup:

Link to post
Share on other sites
I would also like to add to my post that one of the issues with the Viking fellow was that he "polluted" because of carelessness and he didn't care about cleaning up. Where as a great deal more care is taken down there by the ones that are there today and clean up is important.

On the other hand, there is a good debate in questions like,

Do we get everyone to leave the place completely and then lock it up because it is just too fragile and important??

Do we allow everyone the opportunity to see the place?

Do we allow on the privillaged few to go there. Like Scientists and those with lots on money and the free riders called Politicians that go with some lame excuse??

Does Scientific research down there actually answer questions for the rest of the world?

Or is research down there mainly a means of secretly mapping what mineral resources maybe there?

Many more questions and lots of views I am sure.

I personally feel that nobody should be allowed to visit, but who am I to deny others the privilege I have had. I am disgusted by some of the stuff that happens down there, distinguished visitors roaring round the place in helicopters, artists and writers grants, dubious science etc. but the point I am trying to get across is that for better or worse, the treaty partners have mechanisms in place for mitigating the human impact down there and the viking tosser obviously saw these restrictions as only applying to mere mortals. His glory seeking boondoggle was what was important to him, not the environment.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Rocket

My brother drilled holes in the ice down there (he is/was a glacial dedimentologist). He now makes a living drilling holes for oil and geothermal wells all over NZ

 

My cousin spent several years as a chef at McMurdo

 

They were carefully with their waste BUT they undoubtedly left something behind.

 

You would have to be terminally naieve to believe all the bases are for "scientific research". So you guys who worked at McMurdo have likely helped lay the foundation for future mineral exploitation. I don't have an issue with that personally but as noted you were not down there doing the lord's work just cos it was sanctioned...

 

The Norwegian is still a tosser, as is the fat Maori that left a Tino Rangatira (or whatever) flag on the ice. The Norwegian guy is already directly responsible for 3(?) deaths on his last trip.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Crafty 1
My brother drilled holes in the ice down there (he is/was a glacial dedimentologist). He now makes a living drilling holes for oil and geothermal wells all over NZ

 

My cousin spent several years as a chef at McMurdo

 

They were carefully with their waste BUT they undoubtedly left something behind.

 

You would have to be terminally naieve to believe all the bases are for "scientific research". So you guys who worked at McMurdo have likely helped lay the foundation for future mineral exploitation. I don't have an issue with that personally but as noted you were not down there doing the lord's work just cos it was sanctioned...

 

The Norwegian is still a tosser, as is the fat Maori that left a Tino Rangatira (or whatever) flag on the ice. The Norwegian guy is already directly responsible for 3(?) deaths on his last trip.

 

No disagreement their Rocket.

 

you may have been very clean but many are not.

 

i feel as guilty as the next guy (except pwderell) about the exploitation.

 

I know what has happened and cannot justify any of it.

 

But Pwderell does and that saddens me.

 

gotta go....

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...