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Running costs contributions from Crew


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#31 Guest__*

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 02:15 PM

My 2 cents worth after a lengthy time away from this site.

I used to own a S34 in partnership with 3 others and we never asked anyone to pay anything to sail with us however beer/rum was expected to be supplied by the crew every race. Any working bee that was needed there werea lways people there and some even put there hands in their pockets with no prompting from the owners.

I thought everything went well as I always had people to sail with.

On the flipside, when I sailed in the UK I was expected to bring nothing but usually had my own costs covered, but was not paid. Maybe it was the sort of racing I was doing. But in the UK crewing could be expensive when you factor a weekend to the Solent was a train+ accommodation+food

In NZ I have crewed for a few boats now and always take half a dozen and a bag of chips. Always received well and have been invited back. As for running costs, as a previous owner I am sympathetic, but if it is not my boat I would struggle to justify spending any money on someone else's boat. More than happy to split other costs such as food, accom, crew shirts etc.

I think there is a satisfaction at the end of a race to having a few drinks on the boat whether you are the owner or crew and knowing you all had fun together.
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#32 Guest__*

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 06:25 PM

Remember too, its the owners name on the trophy or results page, not the crews.

Yeah, what's up with that crap. Sure if you're a solo but otherwise it's the package that wins knot just one small part of it. Like you often see Coutts won the AC, Blake won the Whitbread... WTF?? Since when were those solo races??

Hence I've always tended to enter under one of the crews names and push them up to grab any goodies, which is then shared amongst the crew leaving me out. I'm there for the yacht and if we do good I know that so I'm happy, I don't need trinkets. To me that only seems only fair as they have done the same yards as I have as well as having to put up with me while doing it, and at times, especially in the very light, that is a big task :) But I suppose some skipper/owners do like trinkets to show off to others and I have no issue with that as long as they acknowledge, often just to themselves would be a good start, they had help from the crew getting them. Unless you are solo yachting is a team sport and you don't see on the Web Ellis Cup - Winner 2012 'R Macaw', so why yachting does has always eluded me.

Anyway I don't expect crew to pay for anything but most front up with bevies, yummies and some have offered to pay for assorted stuff, which is usually declined. Some will enter us and pay the entry as they know I'll probably forget otherwise, I have some smart crew. No way would I expect crew to pay for sails or anything like that, it's my boat which I want to use and in doing so will wear the gear out anyway so that's my cost.

As a crew I usually front with liquids and have supplied gear but then I have easy cheap access to it so I don't mind.

On real big events or offshore it's usually a shared cost thing i.e everyone chucks into the group pot and off we go.

Knot too sure Booboos idea all crew should be paid is that wise nor that legal, when talking average Kiwi racing. Sure more serious time consuming stuff it's probably a must do to ensure a stable crew as he suggests. Also getting paid means you have a duty to perform for someone else rather than performing just because you enjoy it that much. I have seen that feck with some peoples heads and usually in a bad way. Also if all crew expected to be paid the solo scene would suffer entry overload at the expense of crewed racing.

It's very much a horses for courses thing really so find what works for that boat and the people on it and then go have fun.
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#33 Guest__*

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:38 PM

We're grateful to have crew and would be taking the boat out with or without them. We don't charge crew fees and we shout them a drink on the boat and at the bar after the race. Some of them come down to help antifoul but we'd be doing that with or without them anyway (but its nice with :) ).
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#34 B00B00

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 08:18 PM

Well Coutts and blake, Not the boat owners or paying the bill. They are just part of the paid team but happen to be the helmsman or skipper.

I never sugested everyone should get paid, but if someones got skills and tallent that someone else wants to have on their boat then why shouldn't they get paid for it? How is that illegal?
Put it this way, I know a lot of people who get paid a huge amount of money coaching sailing in both dinghys and keelboats, not much different really. Not much different to crewing on the yacht delivery either.
Races like the sydney hobart or any of the big offshores require certain numbers of offshore medics, radio operators, sea survival certs, yacht master ect. Owners need people with these certs and are willing to pay for them. Again skills and quailifications people want and need.

Anyway all I'm saying is that sometimes its worth at least paying boat and crews expenses to keep the good ones and even helping some of them out finalcially if they can't afford to do the regatta or take time off work.
Think how expensive it can be if your crew is lacking experience and break gear, trawl kites or or just generally trash stuff. It can cost in more than one way, $$ and results which also wastes the investment you have made to get the boat to the startline.

Obviously all of this depends totally on your program, I'm talking more about the big races and regattas not midweek stuff.

Just another perspective KM that's all.
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#35 grant

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 08:45 PM

Just curious - if you are being paid, are you then an employee or a contractor, should you declare that income and pay tax, can you claim operating exppenses. More interesting, who pays if there is an accident, who covers medical insurance if you leave NZ, is the owner subjec tto the same laws covering crew on commercial vessels, lots of fun questions here.


surprisingly that the second part of that has a sensible answer,

Buried somewhere in legislation, most likely the Maritime Transport Act. Right after it says if you accept even one beer or a brass razoo for taking someone boating (hire & reward) that you are commercial, it has an exemption for "bona fide crew" contributing towards costs...
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#36 Guest__*

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 08:47 PM

Right , but what about the big boat owner who makes no secret that he pays his crew. What liabilities has he accepted?
A couple of years back a crew was put in a wheelchair when a mast came down and it turned into a serious shitfight (USA) can't remember the outcome, but think the crew sued the owner, rigger, sparmaker etc.
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#37 Guest__*

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:25 PM

I saw this thread title and thought maybe squid was trying to think up new ways to make money from this site!

In all seriousness, I don't have a Problem with paying a nominal amount to a crew account every time we go sailing. I understand that to get good crew you have treat them well, but I also understand that running a raceboat. An easily cost thousands per year or even a week in some cases. NZ seems to have a lack of good race boats at present and that really comes down to lack of $$ to run them. Most owners are not wealthy and running a regular and competitive program can equal a huge amount of wear and tear.

While I don't support a fee Paying crew arrangement as soon boats have, I think it's a good thing if the crew decide off their own back to chip in a few bucks per race to have a more competitive package..... After all it's often crew that break thing.
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#38 Atom Ant

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:48 PM

I guess it depends on what sort of sailing is being done at what level. What amazes me is that yacht racing is largely done on the cheap. Largely on the cheap meaning that for a boat racing with say 5 or 6 people in a rum race, only one person pays, which means that 80% of the people on that boat do it for free.

What other sport does that? Play rugby? Join the club and pay your way. Tennis? Join the club, buy your own kit and pay. Squash? Pay per game, own your own kit, join a club or pay to go to non club courts. Running? Buy your own running shoes, use the pavement for free. What about dragon boat racing? Nope - everyone pays to do that , not just the person steering. Surf clubs? Pay to belong, and pay to help rescue people when you're rostered on.

I guess it depends on your point of view, but to the person who said that a skipper needs crew to race the yacht, which is true, the converse of that is that people who want to crew need a yacht to sail on.

When I think about it, I'm sure we've seen this topic pop up so many times before and there has never been a consensus. It's not so cut & dried see...
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#39 The big T

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 06:11 AM

And what other sport can 90% of the participants not even have to belong to a relevant club, pay admin and affiliation fees etc.
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#40 Guest__*

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 07:25 AM

hmmmmmmmm. I wonder what would happen if mothership decided to change the title and add in .orgers :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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