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Tanalised ply and fibreglass


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Any reason you can't use tanalised ply in a boats hull?

 

Any reason you can't glass over tanalised ply?

 

Should tanalised ply in a boats hull outlast or last as long as what would roughly be called 'marine ply'?

 

Assuming weight is knot an issue nor is shaping a sheet of ply to a tricky hull shape, would you use tanalised ply instead of a 'marine ply' if it meant saving 40% on the ply purchase?

 

Assuming everything is sealed well, why knot use galvanised nails in a boats hull?

 

Need some referees for an current argument going on please.

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Here's a non expert view.

 

Yes you can. But if it isn't sealed, gets dinged, allows water in any way to enter (it's a boat, of course that would happen) you have a big problem.

 

But why would you want to? The ply is a small percentage of the overall cost, 40% saving there is probably less than 10% over the whole project. Use the good stuff and you'll get it back many times over in peace of mind, satisfaction at a job well done, performance, and resale value.

 

Now let's hear from the experts.

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You should not use terrorrized ply in boat construction. Two reasons. Firstly, Epoxy does not adhere to it very well. Epoxy works by being absorbed into the timber fibres and then going hard, thus locking to the timber. Tanalising stops the epoxy from soaking in and adhereing. There are several different grades of tanalising and the higher the "H" number, the worse it becomes. Secondly, it is not common to get good quality ply that has been treated. Normally it is cheap pine plys. The issue with that is the stuff is not stable and nor is it multi ply's, which means it bends easily. You can tell in an instant the boats made with construction plies. They have big ripples down the hull where the ply is held solid against a rib and then it is lose and then solid and then lose and so on. They look plain terrible. A good boat ply is 7 to as many as 15ply's as against the 3 to 5 ply of our standard pine ply's. Thirdly, you would not get any boat to pass survey if biult from ordinary ply. Survey requires ply that has a BS1088 stamp on it. That means it passes a "boil test". In a nut shell, it means the ply remains stable, it does not warp and it does not delaminate. It is usually Maranti or Gabboon here in NZ.

And lastly, none stamped Maranti ply is available cheaper than our cheap nasty Pine ply, so why would you even bother.

Galv nails!. Well yeah I know of some pro's that use Galv. Yes you can get away with it, sometimes. But surpisingly, over many years, water can get in. Salt water that is. Even under glass. I have seen both Galv and SST nails and screws removed and both have rusted. But the Galv have actually survived better than the SST believe it or not. And the corrosion is not too serious, plus the nail tends to "grab" the timber, making it Darn near impossible to remove the thing. But if they are close to the surface, they can weap and stain and at worst case, rust. If you want the best, then Silicon bronze is best, but yes they are expensive. However, with todays Epoxies, the screws and nails are there to hold the timber till the glue dries. So you don't need as many anymore and you can often "pin" timber in place and then remove the screw to reuse elsewhere.

The Nails and Ply is such a small part of the coast, i just don't see why you would bother. But don't do what a friend of mine is doing. He is using "No more nails" and a biulders gas powerd hammer gun with builders nails. It's a stink potter, so whadda ya expect. But I ain't going to sea with him.

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Need some referees for an current argument going on please

KM's argument reminded me of the story/legend of Johnny Wray and Ngataki, built from salvaged timber, bolts dipped in tar etc. Took him round the Pacific and apparently still going more than three-quarters of a century later:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/marlborough-expr ... or-Ngataki

 

His book, South Seas Vagabonds, still comes up on Trademe from time to time. Might be of interest to whoever is advancing the argument. Which seems to be heading in the "...but why would you want to?" direction.

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As we are having issues finding our new house I suggested starting from scratch using simple hull shape and ply. A few of the builder lads (houses knot boats) said use Tan ply. While I know of a few done that way I suggested real ply would be better and off it all went, along with the beverages.

 

I reckon you could use tan ply but you could just as easily use real stuff.

 

But thinking again this morning the idea of starting from scratch may knot be as silly as it sounds. We were onto a 60ft multi with buggered motors and in need (from 1st suss) serious work from the deck upwards. 35K which I thought was knot to shabby assuming the steel hulls were still OK. We did try a couple more 'finished' boats but too slow to get to one and the other couldn't be modified without huge work and expense so went back to the semi-buggered boat working on the theory we could rebuild the top to suit our needs. Bugger, missed that by a day or 2.

 

Target - A floating home for me, the Wa, and the 2 D's. Thinking 60ft and multi for the extra beam. Cruise at 8-10kts there abouts, so a couple of 150hp donks would be fine.

 

So thinking why knot whack up a set of ply hulls and go from there. It's knot like we are after speed performance more just lots of room which we can move around when we want too.

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Get John Welsfords book and check out the houseboat at the back, cheap easy big comfy slow, economical, shallow draft John's a nice guy, I'm sure he'd look at altering to suit your family.

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Need some referees for an current argument going on please

KM's argument reminded me of the story/legend of Johnny Wray and Ngataki, built from salvaged timber, bolts dipped in tar etc.

 

.

 

Have been told the Ngataki is in Akl due to undergo restoration / rebuild

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We were onto a 60ft multi with buggered motors and in need (from 1st suss) serious work from the deck upwards. 35K which I thought was knot to shabby assuming the steel hulls were still OK.

.

 

that sounds disturbingly familiar... was this one that wheels looked at for you?

 

a move to the dark side (stinkboat?) and was this vessel painted purple? if so you would do well to avoid it, i know it too, too well and would need a lot of convincing it was in any sort of decent condition...... oh the stories I could tell :roll:

 

although the entire cabin was alloy, so would have been worth a bit for scrap..... :lol:

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What about some of these boats that are supposedly being offloaded at bargain prices in places like the States, Asia and the Middle East?

 

Having done what I have done (on a very modest scale) I now know that buying even a boat in average-to-good condition, and giving it a birthday with new gear/materials, can very quickly become more expensive than just paying up to get a boat in top condition. You are still getting every component of the boat at a fraction of its new price. And that's not to mention that unless you have a love of sanding... :crazy:

 

I'd hold on to your cash and wait for something good rather than compromising your criteria. :thumbup:

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The one Wheels went to suss was blue or is now blue. No idea what it was before that. Looked to be a ex-ferry. Was on a mooring near Wheels somewhere... I think, the Sth Island looks all the same to us from up here :) But sold a day or 2 before we got back to get into it deeply, bum.

 

Been sussing overseas but it's surprisingly hard to find something. What I've found so far are either a tad on the small or monsters 80ft plus or just 3mil Euros sort of thing. Truck loads of 'houseboats' but they wouldn't last 5 mins in the H Gulf, it does need to be able to be a real boat as well. Christ, it's easy as to buy a 30 room pocket cruise ship though. On to a couple of possibles in Japan so we'll see where that goes.

 

Trade down to a 1020? Interesting for sure but there are other plans percolating on the yacht side and I'm in no mad panic on the yacht side at the moment, I still haven't fully unleashed the current beast on the fleet yet so still plenty of fun left to be had there ;) There looks to be work being done on trying to set up a shorthanded Australasian race circuit. I've been asked if I'd be interested in playing. The answer, after a millisecond of thought, was a big Yes. If it pans out as was suggested it'll be brilliant. So maybe another reason knot to rush too fast I think.

 

And still deciding whether to up grade the Pit (our place) or hang for the boat.

 

Aghhhh... it's all in a somewhat fluid state in my world at the moment.

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The one Wheels went to suss was blue or is now blue. No idea what it was before that. Looked to be a ex-ferry. Was on a mooring near Wheels somewhere... I think, the Sth Island looks all the same to us from up here :) But sold a day or 2 before we got back to get into it deeply, bum.

 

yep, that's the one, believe me, you got lucky there, unlike the chap who has bought it

 

built as Tiger Lilly 2 for fullers about a century ago and then was the harbour ferry in wellywood from 89 till about 96 and then been hanging out in Picton since then, was in very poor condition when it left welly, there is a rumour it is now top notch..but.......

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He is sorrounded by Girls. He wants some space.

Ah Wheels, your post made me think about karma and the old saying about being careful what you wish for... :lol:

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Like the guy sitting at the Well and suddenly "poof" and a Genie appears. You can have a wish yadda yadda you know the drill, says the Genie. The guys says, I want to be irresistable to Woman. Ok say's the Genie, and "Poof" the guy is turned in to a cute little puppy.

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Yes I am irresistible to women. Every day I have at least 3 hunting specifically for me........ or maybe it's my wallet :?

 

Yes space is the target rather than speed and other stuff like that, which is aprt of the hunting problem, most boats I've found cruise at 20kts odd due to many 1000's of horsies packed downstairs with 80-100lt/hr being shoved into them. We'd be happy as a pig in pooh to cruise at 8-10kts as there would never be any rush to get home, we're already there. If we got back at 3am who cares, the kids are snoring off so can get up for school the next am just as usual.

 

I did a quick work-out on the 60ft 'hulls' in Picton and I reckon we could get approx. 2100 sq ft of floor area before the boat got too ugly i.e she'd look a little car carrier like but knot like a floating sky scraper. 4 big cabins and maybe a couple of small ones depending on getting 'into' the hulls. 2 floors plus a skydeck. A rough guess had that skydeck close to 6mts off the water so knot silly high but a nice 12 x 5mts odd in space. Get a kitchen rather than a galley, bathrooms rather than heads and just shop at .....errr.. where ever it is (can't think of a place) you buy normal household furniture. Nothing build in so can change when you like and so just like a home glued to dry ground.

 

With a average house being 1800 squares, our current a lot smaller than that, 2100 would be perfect especially as we would have a floor each. One for the big people and one for the loud little people.

 

And all with the ability to say 'Piss off you loud creature, here are 2 oars go play with the sharks and leave me in peace', after I deployed the motherships mooring system. On a boat like that I won't be having an anchoring system :)

 

I'd like to start from scratch but in 2 minds if I have both the time and the desire to do another new boat really. I am investigating getting someone to knock up a pair of hulls and superstructure so we'll see where that goes. Just using glass over ply and simple semi-slab hull shapes rather than complex, it's just knot needed in this case.

 

I dunno, it's all becoming a bit of a head f*ck at the moment with everything else going on. I think I need a road trip to clear the head. Might have to organise a couple of lads for another Good Bye Bacon and Egg Pie run.

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A guy at the club bought a couple of wharram hulls and converted them into displacement launch hulls. I suspect what you're thinking of is a bigger version of that. This thing goes really far and fast on stuff all fuel. Looks? Slightly boxy but not ugly by any stretch. Has a nice deck out the back. When you come up the river later this month KM take time to take a gander at it. It's the concept, I'm talking about here - I reckon you're on to it.

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I know the one AA and like his style if knot the finished look quite so much but my (I should say 'ours' as the Wa is the main driver behind it) desire would be equally as ugly so I should shut up :) Will be sussing closer in a couple of weeks.

 

At the end of the day the finished item just lends itself to looking like a floating caravan. Knot to much you can do about that I suppose.

 

Will be sussing John Wellsford further this week Mr Squid. I think you are onto something there.

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