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ETNZ AC72 Sailing


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Actually I am stunned. Shock horror, a couple of large winged foiling multis that can go faster than smaller monos. Whoever would ever have seen that coming? :twisted: :wink:

 

Yes these are cool and fast but stunning? Knot as yet but it's early days so ya just never know.

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What about a chase boat comp?

could start after the yachts in the coastal classic and have to carry a cameraman to get snaps of the yachts racing, create a zig zaging course that will hopefully cross the tracks of the racing yachts. Must get a picture of every yacht at least once

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With you on this Knot me.

 

Stunning will not nessasarily win the AC. Ask Michael Fay and his big boat and ask him again about that tandem keel red dog.

 

If you look at the wind speed required to get the best VMG for this foiled machine and compare it to wind data for the San Fran race course ( typical wind for the time of year the AC is sailed) it might not be a good concept around the course

 

Also if the course is tight with lots of tacking ( typical Bay course between land) and not long enough to have long boards/downwind legs, then a more typical multi might have a tactical edge and maybe a speed edge.

 

ETNZ looks impressive and has an obvious speed edge when on the foil. but once again ETNZ, as like TNZ before it, are trying to make up for a lack of sailing skill and time in the new AC class by introducing new technology as a gamble that may or may not pay off.

 

Remember the hula for the boat that swamped in a breeze :idea:

 

Remeber The big boat dog that could not beat the cat, the twin keel dog that Rod Davis was replaced by Coutts for the last 3 races, the boom with the missing end that broke, the old mast that was not tested in a breeze and then fell over. And a cockpit that filled with water...

 

This concept looks good but until it beats the opposition it is just a concept.

 

Remember the AC is not a drag race. It has corners and opposition who can nail a vulnerable boat very easily... even if it I'd faster.

 

Sometimes I wish the Kiwi,s would just turn up in equal hardware and prove their sailing ability is better... with no excuses.

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With you on this Knot me.

 

Stunning will not nessasarily win the AC. Ask Michael Fay and his big boat and ask him again about that tandem keel red dog.

 

If you look at the wind speed required to get the best VMG for this foiled machine and compare it to wind data for the San Fran race course ( typical wind for the time of year the AC is sailed) it might not be a good concept around the course

 

Also if the course is tight with lots of tacking ( typical Bay course between land) and not long enough to have long boards/downwind legs, then a more typical multi might have a tactical edge and maybe a speed edge.

 

ETNZ looks impressive and has an obvious speed edge when on the foil. but once again ETNZ, as like TNZ before it, are trying to make up for a lack of sailing skill and time in the new AC class by introducing new technology as a gamble that may or may not pay off.

 

Remember the hula for the boat that swamped in a breeze :idea:

 

Remeber The big boat dog that could not beat the cat, the twin keel dog that Rod Davis was replaced by Coutts for the last 3 races, the boom with the missing end that broke, the old mast that was not tested in a breeze and then fell over. And a cockpit that filled with water...

 

This concept looks good but until it beats the opposition it is just a concept.

 

Remember the AC is not a drag race. It has corners and opposition who can nail a vulnerable boat very easily... even if it I'd faster.

 

Sometimes I wish the Kiwi,s would just turn up in equal hardware and prove their sailing ability is better... with no excuses.

 

Not sure I agree with all your comments there. But if they were to race one design boats and have to present there birth certificates to qualify. I think NZ would kick arse. Need I have to remind you of the 1995 cup? Whoop whoop!

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Justin port, if you were paying any attention, you'd know that this is not some rule bending shortcut like we have seen before, but most likely the way probably all the teams will go.

 

Oracle has foiling ac45s, and clearly their new 72 is set to foil, if only they stay together.

 

Luna Rosas and etnz both have foiling sl33s.

 

I think without foils, you'll be left behind.

 

As for 'lack of sailing skill' perhaps you should lay off the paint thinners and have a look at what the guys in the team (present and past) have achieved.....

 

Go ETNZ, the boat is STUNNING!

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Mmmmmmmm. Should I win the AC45 world series or the Americas cup? Fully understand ETNZs performance in the last regatta. Just shows they are one step ahead of the competition. Go ETNZ

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You backed up my point there royal.

 

We won in 95 with no tricks!

 

We had a good boat, a great crew and a conservative approach.

 

The 95 boat did not have one "trick" bit of kit or any flash concept other than being a complete package and great team work. That's why it was fast. ( lots of small things and not some bit of mind blowing kit that blew our minds and created no advantage :D :D )

 

As for birth certs... well I think the Aussies would do well as would the yank,s and euro's.

 

Clipper. The boat is great. No argument. But will it win the Americas cup?

 

By sailing skill I mean they have had less time than oracle and the last AC challenger.

 

Also... what happens if a team turns up without foils and wins...what will happen then and what will be stunning?

 

Time will tell I suppose

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Good concepts and good point of view :thumbup:

 

I hope like hell we take out this cup

 

From what we have to go on right now, I love where ETNZ is at.

 

Such new design concepts. No chance to refine stuff so unfortunately the next cup will be won on boat speed more than sailing ability. Give t a few cups and sailing ability will come back.

 

1995 team was the complete package

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Good concepts and good point of view :thumbup:

 

I hope like hell we take out this cup

 

From what we have to go on right now, I love where ETNZ is at.

 

Such new design concepts. No chance to refine stuff so unfortunately the next cup will be won on boat speed more than sailing ability. Give t a few cups and sailing ability will come back.

 

1995 team was the complete package

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Good concepts and good point of view :thumbup:

 

I hope like hell we take out this cup

 

From what we have to go on right now, I love where ETNZ is at.

 

Such new design concepts. No chance to refine stuff so unfortunately the next cup will be won on boat speed more than sailing ability. Give t a few cups and sailing ability will come back.

 

1995 team was the complete package

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Good concepts and good point of view :thumbup:

 

I hope like hell we take out this cup

 

From what we have to go on right now, I love where ETNZ is at.

 

Such new design concepts. No chance to refine stuff so unfortunately the next cup will be won on boat speed more than sailing ability. Give t a few cups and sailing ability will come back.

 

1995 team was the complete package

 

I too hope they have a speed advantage that get them to the finish first.

 

My concern is the courses they may lay and the conditions they may sail in may be manipulated to mitigate any advantage we may have. They yanks have done this before... many a time..

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Good concepts and good point of view :thumbup:

 

I hope like hell we take out this cup

 

From what we have to go on right now, I love where ETNZ is at.

 

Such new design concepts. No chance to refine stuff so unfortunately the next cup will be won on boat speed more than sailing ability. Give t a few cups and sailing ability will come back.

 

1995 team was the complete package

 

I too hope they have a speed advantage that get them to the finish first.

 

My concern is the courses they may lay and the conditions they may sail in may be manipulated to mitigate any advantage we may have. They yanks have done this before... many a time..

 

But this time Oracle can not directly control what happens as they set up the ACM to run it who are supposed to be neutral and if there not then there will be court cases.

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But this time Oracle can not directly control what happens as they set up the ACM to run it who are supposed to be neutral and if there not then there will be court cases.

if you could just pop that into this that would be great, thanks.

null-2.jpg

 

:lol:

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But this time Oracle can not directly control what happens as they set up the ACM to run it who are supposed to be neutral and if there not then there will be court cases.

if you could just pop that into this that would be great, thanks.

null-2.jpg

 

:lol:

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: I dont have photoshop so this is the best that I can do. It will be interesting to see if Oracle do/have already influenced the cup to their advantage after setting up the ACM.

post-10945-141887208224.jpg

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You backed up my point there royal.

 

We won in 95 with no tricks!

 

We had a good boat, a great crew and a conservative approach.

 

The 95 boat did not have one "trick" bit of kit or any flash concept other than being a complete package and great team work. That's why it was fast. ( lots of small things and not some bit of mind blowing kit that blew our minds and created no advantage :D :D )

 

As for birth certs... well I think the Aussies would do well as would the yank,s and euro's.

 

Clipper. The boat is great. No argument. But will it win the Americas cup?

 

By sailing skill I mean they have had less time than oracle and the last AC challenger.

 

Also... what happens if a team turns up without foils and wins...what will happen then and what will be stunning?

 

Time will tell I suppose

 

Not too sure about no tricks.

There were none that were obvious, but I know a lot of effort went into the keel. Every 10mm saved on fin deflection equalled x amount of pointing ability (can't remember the amount). Thats a huge advantage when you are matching another boat as you can ease off a little and still point just as high. That equals more baotspeed and it all becomes easier.

The TNZ boats were a whole generation more advanced than the rest so I reckon thats lots of tricks.

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We won in 95 with no tricks!

..

The 95 boat did not have one "trick" bit of kit or any flash concept other than being a complete package and great team work. That's why it was fast. ( lots of small things and not some bit of mind blowing kit that blew our minds and created no advantage )

.

 

Im not sure, I think a gennaker is a fairly major trick given that every single IACC boat since 95 has run with them...

Something called 3dl comes to mind aswell... Not exclusive but TNZs/Norths use of the high roach main and yarn layout certainly was.

 

?? Worth reading http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 059600075X.

 

Journal of wind engineering and industrial aerodynamics

Americas Cup Sail Design

Burns Fallow (1996)

 

I hope ETNZs strength this time round is the sailor lead design approach

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With you on this Knot me.

 

Stunning will not nessasarily win the AC.

Stunning may win, it has before but then it's best knot to go in thinking 'we're stunning so will walk away with it' as that is such an open invite to Mr Cock-up it's beyond funny. The Hula was stunning but that still didn't stop a visit from Mr Cock-up. The winged keel was stunning but luckily for the Aussies Mr Cock-up slept in that regatta as can be seen by how pissed off he was during one of the Aussies later attempts to get the Cup back, he sure wasn't gonna miss out rogering a pile of Aussies a second time.

 

But that wasn't the stunning I've yet to see, I was thinking 'new and different stunning'. Knot performance as anything like those 72's that don't go like a Kererū with a Exocet missile up it's arse is without question a Woof and this batch of 72's will knot be slow. But the only thing this AC is likely to see that hasn't already done in a AC is foils on centreboards. As to the rest it's all been there done that...... so far. Hence I await game day with big interest as it'll be to late to pull stunning out after that.

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With you on this Knot me.

 

Stunning will not nessasarily win the AC.

Stunning may win, it has before but then it's best knot to go in thinking 'we're stunning so will walk away with it' as that is such an open invite to Mr Cock-up it's beyond funny. The Hula was stunning but that still didn't stop a visit from Mr Cock-up. The winged keel was stunning but luckily for the Aussies Mr Cock-up slept in that regatta as can be seen by how pissed off he was during one of the Aussies later attempts to get the Cup back, he sure wasn't gonna miss out rogering a pile of Aussies a second time.

 

But that wasn't the stunning I've yet to see, I was thinking 'new and different stunning'. Knot performance as anything like those 72's that don't go like a Kererū with a Exocet missile up it's arse is without question a Woof and this batch of 72's will knot be slow. But the only thing this AC is likely to see that hasn't already done in a AC is foils on centreboards. As to the rest it's all been there done that...... so far. Hence I await game day with big interest as it'll be to late to pull stunning out after that.

 

 

I've done a bit of sailing in the bay area (from Marin, San Fran YC, and Sausalito area) and besides the tide, which is a big issue in some parts, the days of light breeze could hurt a foiling cat.

 

Just like the days of good breeze will benefit a foiler.

 

gunner be interestin :|

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