Guest Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 [b]"There's an awful lot of 'get me out of here!' ocean sailing going on these days. By that I mean ocean sailing in which the participants are prepared to curtail their voyage and call for rescue, not on the basis of genuine distress, but on the basis of fear. In the process they abandon yachts which are floating, sound and still seaworthy". ~ [/i[i]]"However, this ease of communication, as I have argued elsewhere, has a more insidious effect. It militates against the most rigorous preparation. I don't know about this particular case, but I often get the impression that heavy weather preparation is low on the list of priorities of ocean sailors. As long as you throw a long warp and a sea anchor on board before you set off you'll be OK, and if things aren't OK then what the hell, that magic button on the EPIRB will solve the problem. That magic button has a lot to answer for. Not having one concentrates the mind wonderfully. Heavy weather gear needs careful planning. It puts terrific strains on itself and its fixings. One strategy will rarely suffice for all conditions; the wise sailor will be prepared with the whole panoply of sea anchors, towing warps, series drogues, all of more than adequate proportions for the weight of yacht sailed, and preferably with their own dedicated chainplates and bridles. Mingming, of less than a ton of displacement, carries a series drogue made up of eighty-six mini-drogues fixed to a hundred metres of 16mm warp run from a permanently fixed bridle, a large sea anchor also on 16mm warp, plus a selection of warps and heavy chain for towing".[/b] ~ excerpts from Roger Taylor's website "The Smple Sailor". Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 We had been lying ahull in 40-50kn (once considered a reasonable technique for handling bad weather). A front went over and we had a 90 deg wind shift and increase to a lot more wind. Hard to be exact but I would say constant 70+kn. North Cape recorded a max gust of 104kn and we were about 200 miles north (June). The wind shift meant about 6 hours of VERY large seas that were somewhat pyramidal, I'mnot good at estimating wave heights but the top 2-3m were breaking. It was one of those that bowled us. After which I ran downwind which was a lot better nothing more than the odd 90 deg knockdown. Sailed home over the next few days. Biggest lesson learnt was securing everything down below. And a few years later I believe that lesson saved my skin. I did a write up back when crew.org.nz was a just a baby, I'll have a look for it. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Found it Seems to agree with what I just wrote fairly well I had just got back from the Noumea race, was unemployed (sacked from Lidgard Rudling), and wanted to get across to Oz to visit a certain young lady. I met this guy who had just bought a Pacific 38, his first boat, knew next to nothing. There was one other on board who had experience (ex crew from Buccaneer), so I offered to sail up and do the nav if he would fly me to Sydney after. At the time I was sure I knew everything as I had done a few ocean passages by then ( I was 22). First few days were OK then it went NE and got up to about 40-45 with higher gusts. The boat handled that no problems, no sail and we all went below to wait it out. A few hours later a wall of water hit us and we were upside down and back up before you even had time to think about it. As it happens a secondary front had gone over us with a ninety degree wind shift and much higher wind speed. As it was way more than I had seen at the time I’m reluctant to guess at wind speed but at the Cape they reported a max gust of 104kn, I would say we had consistent 70’s with gusts. The real problem was the effect the wind shift had on the sea state, two large wave sets at right angles throwing pyramids of water that would collapse under their own weight, I’m fairly sure it was one of these that hit us. After we came up though I still hadn’t clicked that conditions were much worse, so looking at the mess below I offered to go run off and steer while the others cleaned up. My first inkling of real trouble was when I pulled the hatch back, the air going past sucked pressure out of the cabin and my ears popped as in a plane. I turned her downwind and this heavy old displacement boat took off at about 17kn under bare poles, got to the trough and spun out into a ninety degree knockdown. That was pretty much the story for the next few hours. The rudder would let go when a breaking wave with 5-6 feet of foam got under her and the rudder had no bite. The air/sea interface was very indistinct and at times it felt almost as if we were sinking, with so much air in the water we were down almost to the toerail. Anyway, after a while the other guy came on deck, we had a quick parley and decided to slow her down. He tied a bucket to a line and tossed it over- it lasted 1.2 nanoseconds. After some trial and error we ended with the #2 genoa and an anchor and chain out the back and things improved considerably. Enough that after watching for maybe half an hour I went below (also the seas were adjusting to the new wind direction). Down below was a sh!tfight. The stove/oven had jumped the gimbals when we were upside down and was banging around inside the boat. We threw it overboard. The owner had been in a pilot berth, rolled across the overhead and fell on his back across the table as we righted, he was passing blood for a few days. The water was about knee deep and littered with eggs, flour, all sorts of unidentifiable stuff and my nav tables. Most had to be got rid of by hand as it was too thick for the bilge pumps. By morning it had eased to about 35kn (seemed like a flat calm) and we very carefully started sailing back to Russell, arriving two days later. The owner never covered my airfare to Sydney saying I hadn’t got his boat to Fiji. And he stole my favourite beanie. I hitched to Auckland, went to the bar at Akarana and got tanked. Points of interest: The liferaft and dinghy were never seen having been ripped from the deck. I would never have faith in a raft stowed above deck. A gimballed stove needs a pin so it won’t fall out if you are upside down. The dinghy took the pulpit and port lifelines with it, making the return trip more difficult than it would have been otherwise. Serious problem below with gear flying around, this episode stood me in good stead as I encountered similar conditions some years later on the mighty Cav and suffered zero damage, I had learnt about stowing things below. If people ask me now what I do in bad weather the answer is go below and get in my bunk and it’s not a joke. On deck is dangerous. Unless you have a full and skilful crew you must be able set your boat up to look after herself and get below. On a lighter note later that evening I was getting hungry and remembered we had deep sixed the stove, had a look around and saw that the only food that had survived that we could eat was some liquorice and cans of cold beans. We sh*t and farted our way to Russell. Link to post Share on other sites
Bimini Babe 0 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I remember reading that story previously - love it. Funnily enough, I've found the first thing I do when weather turns shitty is run around stowing things below, strapping stuff down, etc. I spent a lot of time before we left making sure there was a latch on every cupboard, a cover on every cubbyhole and tie-down straps on every bunk for loose gear - much to my 'first mate's amusement. I think he sees my point now! But I'm still amazed when I walk into other offshore cruisers' boats that they have so much loose gear lying around. From books and mugs, to floorboards, tables, sails and bikes... I shiver to think of all that crap flying around my head in the dark and the wet and the howling noise... Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 More crew? Plenty of people making safe efficient passages with only one or two aboard. I agree but before the official cyclone season has started and there are plenty also that don't or limp in with plenty on damage. Keeps the boat building industry in business:clap: Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 More crew? Plenty of people making safe efficient passages with only one or two aboard. IMHO one competent experienced person is enough, the rest just make it a little easier. And more can make it harder ! 7 and can also make it easier. Yes. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I remember reading that story previously - love it. But I'm still amazed when I walk into other offshore cruisers' boats that they have so much loose gear lying around. From books and mugs, to floorboards, tables, sails and bikes... I shiver to think of all that crap flying around my head in the dark and the wet and the howling noise... It's usually whilst in port. Try visiting after they are under way you will probably find in all stowed. Mugs They just had coffee. Books they where reading before you came on board. Floor boards, the mate was attending to the auto bilge pumps before you came on board. Sails, the tool compartment is under the bow bunk where the spare or storm sails are stowed and where removed to get at the tools before you came on board.... Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 But I'm still amazed when I walk into other offshore cruisers' boats that they have so much loose gear lying around. From books and mugs, to floorboards, tables, sails and bikes... I shiver to think of all that crap flying around my head in the dark and the wet and the howling noise...On my last trans Tasman/Coral Seas a few weeks back we had a real wobbly night. I wondered down into the saloon on a pot-noddle run just as a real big wobble happened. I saw a darker spot go flying past in the darkness and thought 'glad I missed that' only to hear a split second later a large THUNK like noise and I thought 'WTF? that just hit what?'. Turned light on to see Otto lying there a lot more dazed and confused than he usually is. It's a large saloon but the picture that came flying off the wall got him smack in the scone, nailed the bugger very nicely Thank you. The Morel of story is 2 fold - 1 - Don't just jamb things in, fix them with fixings. 2 - Ottos head is damn handy for saving bumps and scratches to the boat. Every boat should install it's own Otto Link to post Share on other sites
Crocket 12 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 It doesn't need to be that rough either. I had a pot of hot stew big enough for 6 people take off and put a nice dent in the cabin roof then land in the main saloon. It was only blowing about 20 knts on a beam reach when a wave at an odd angle launched us into mid air.Luckily no body was in the way, but needless to say, we were a meal down for the trip. I learnt my lesson. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 How's life in the north?? Bloody great thanks Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 It's never winter in the tropics. Just some periods are hotter than others. In the not so hot times they, the depressions just don't suddenly appear. And how long have you lived in the tropics OC ?? I spent some time in Fiji many years back for a company I worked for and the only real knowledge I gained about the weather, was that you never take the weather in the Tropics for granted, no matter what time of the year. After now having gained some experience sailing, still nowhere near what others here have, I would say it is something to keep in mind when sailing anywhere. Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,230 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I've read this topic with interest. I was (we were) returning to NZ from New Cal as this was going down. We saw Bob's weathergram, and we waited until the system was passed the line between New Cal and North Cape before leaving. We had a lot of weather information, as did most cruisers planning this trip. We had one crew member who wanted to go earlier - too bad! My decision as skipper. It was interesting watching the other cruisers prepare. We (in the marina) put up all the storm sails, (2 new crew on board, 3 total - Jo flew home), got out the parachute, rigged it so the crew could see how it worked, checked everyting was tied down - it usually is, and checked, then rechecked the weather. I also went up the rig with a magnifying glass, checked all swages, running rigging etc. Also keel bolts, rudder stock, lifelines etc. I know the return to NZ can be hard. Some boats did no more than refuel and water. As it was, we had 25-30 knts on the nose for the first bit (to Norfolk), about 30 hours at norfolk, then one more day to weather, last 2 days motoring towards North cape - no wind!!! and Sailed from there on a beam reach to Opua. A good and fairly easy trip. It is my opinion ( after 40 odd years of sailing, and quite a few offshore miles) that to lie ahull is dangerous, especially in modern high freeboard boats. Once the breaking crests are 30 odd percent of your waterline, it's time to use a series drogue, or a parachute and heave to. If your boat will heave too without the parachute, good luck to you. Mine needs the parachute... It is easy to critisize others form your armchairs. Media reports are often misleading or even wrong. I allways think, "there but for the grace of god go I"... Matt Island Time Link to post Share on other sites
Terry B 71 Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 interesting blog take on this whole saga. I'm no ocean going sailor so i'm not commenting! http://karenandjimsexcellentadventure.b ... -seas.html Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,230 Posted November 24, 2012 Share Posted November 24, 2012 Ok, I'd be keen to go out and get her. How do we find a better more current position? Link to post Share on other sites
Bimini Babe 0 Posted November 25, 2012 Share Posted November 25, 2012 Heard it through the cruiser-vine today that she's currently under tow. Link to post Share on other sites
Wannabe 0 Posted November 27, 2012 Share Posted November 27, 2012 I've heard a rumor whispered in the dusty corridors also... but is it true? Link to post Share on other sites
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