Guest Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 costs will limit most people!... sooooo... What are the class rules for this class? Could you take a thompson 650, ross 650? or a E5.9, or anything similar and lengthen / shorten / modify it and compete? (3 rules for class! - max length, Max sail area, min weight) or could you set up a circuit around the pacific for existing boats 6.50 or say 7.80 metres or under, singlehanded?. Would be cheaper for the same affect. Mind you looking at those new 650's makes you drool! Interesting thought. ...I wouldn't have thought it possible... The Class rules are here: http://www.wmaker.net/classemini_en/dow ... les/45524/ Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 A longer version of a Mini, Shanson. And replicate such a class paint job as SR's? I doubt it would be possible Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJohnB 323 Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 [quote="NZL3166 Interesting thought. ...I wouldn't have thought it possible... The Class rules are here] Your french must alot better than mine , all I could work out LOA 6.5 Air draft 12.0 Water draft 2.0 Bmax 3.0 Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJohnB 323 Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 A longer version of a Mini, Shanson. And replicate such a class paint job as SR's? I doubt it would be possible 9.5 Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJohnB 323 Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 What happened to Murray Ross's design Wid Child #394? Link to post Share on other sites
Panic Knot 6 Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 What happened to Murray Ross's design Wid Child #394? Saw it on a website for sale in Sydney a few years back. Think I remember seeing it somewhere that it had gone to Melbourne. Here's the link to the UK translation of the rules for those who can't read French (myself included). Note that there are apparently a couple of differences between the two versions and the French one prevails (surprise surprise!). http://www.wmaker.net/classemini_en/downloads/files/45298/ The file you want is called "2009 Guide Mini GB - Internet.pdf" Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 My thoughts are you need to keep the box the same as the international - this will help the boats retain value and put us up on the international stage and therefore attract sponsers. That being said a ross and t or Dib 650 may well fit in the box. I know I could cut and tuck any of those to fit. I think you will also find that the concept Josh, Mat , Dan and Paul are going to present may well be more doable than most think. E.g. how many of you would concider the Shaw 650 sports boat too bigger project to undertake ? ( well there's another idea - unitech builds ) having spoken with Josh, I think they are on the right track and these will be more achievable than you may think. After all look at what or fearless leader has achieved with his proa. And there is always going to be plenty of support within or community. We could have a build fourm ...... and I'm only a phone call away as are plenty of others. there will be easyer examples and more complex, after all I'm working slowly on a paneled kit option. Great Stuff Guys, the ball is rolling, now run with it Link to post Share on other sites
Guest creative suffering Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 My thoughts are you need to keep the box the same as the international - this will help the boats retain value and put us up on the international stage and therefore attract sponsers. That being said a ross and t or Dib 650 may well fit in the box. I know I could cut and tuck any of those to fit. I think you will also find that the concept Josh, Mat , Dan and Paul are going to present may well be more doable than most think. E.g. how many of you would concider the Shaw 650 sports boat too bigger project to undertake ? ( well there's another idea - unitech builds ) having spoken with Josh, I think they are on the right track and these will be more achievable than you may think. After all look at what or fearless leader has achieved with his proa. And there is always going to be plenty of support within or community. We could have a build fourm ...... and I'm only a phone call away as are plenty of others. there will be easyer examples and more complex, after all I'm working slowly on a paneled kit option. Great Stuff Guys, the ball is rolling, now run with it It's sounds bloody good but... Just to maintain some ballance... All three of my garages are 5 metres long!... Can we make it a 5 metre class! Also, If you want to be competitive in this class fleet you will either need to be building and equiping your boat with all the best materials and equipment or be very smart. (bulk buy materials, look at cheaper build options...) Or go as cheap as you can to meet your own individual budget (or collective budget) and be happy to compete. or demand a "budget division" in the race and kill two birds with on stone? A new build to "top Specs" would be expensive. you could go ply hull, dacron sails and alloy rig, standard keel and put one in the water quite cheaply but from what i have seen you can spent a lot of money for a boat that would be outdated reasonably quickly and have very little use at international level and would need a strong local fleet and events to keep its value here or internationally! a real catch 22. cheap and good numbers / local fleet, or... expensive competitive and lower numbers. Remember we are in a recession? or (new idae)set up your own local 650 offshore event with cheap boats (mod'd existing boats & new builds) that meet the international rules (without the expense) and see how you go!!! Best of luck! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Also, If you want to be competitive in this class fleet you will either need to be building and equiping your boat with all the best materials and equipment or be very smart. (bulk buy materials, look at cheaper build options...) Not so sure about best materials. My understanding is that low-tech boats are just as competitive and that success is more dependant on sailing 'em aggressively. Liking this thread. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 All three of my garages are 5 metres long!... Can we make it a 5 metre class! ! Knock down the internal walls, if they are 3m wide you can go to 9m , maybe 11m on the diagonal. I ended up poking a hole in an internal door. I though the boat fit in the garage, closed the auto door closer thingy and pushed it through the door in the back wall. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 It's hard to feel too much sympathy for someone with three garages! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Saturday Night Special Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I am interested in designing and building one I think Dans Rig is 25% to big for the Hauraki gulf so can anyone list the complete set of rules Link to post Share on other sites
shanson 0 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I would LOVE to build one of these but it's the $$$$! as always. Would be happy to comit time and perhaps even a garage if there's anyone out West Auckland thats keen. Cheers SHANE Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Nice looking mini, Yes, I could be very interested, but, like others, I need more information. The biggest question is the cost. Whilst I would love a mini, a 50k Euro boat is out of my leauge at this stage. about the boat, Well it definitely looks the part. Are you going to go for single or double daggerboards? And what sort of water ballast config are you planning? Looking forward to hearing more. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 I know some are working on costs. Can you post here your best 'back of the envelope' calcualtions for producing 1, 2, 3, and 5 boats? It would be a nice thing if the price fell away with 5 boats... it should but the question is to what degree... knowing the costs will help everyone get a feel for the ball park. For me, it's unlikely that I'll end up sailing a Mini 6.5 - I just really like them - caught the bug from Chris Sayer... am happy to help out with the cause from time to time... Link to post Share on other sites
reburto 0 Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 It would be great to see a fleet of these racing around the gulf! I would be keen to build one.. I guess the best thing about building one yourself is that its not one big lump sum.. doing it in stages over a couple of years might not be so bad Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 some idea of costs would be great. As I undersand it the thompson 8 h2go, carbon mast, cedar strip hull etc that Dan built cost circa 65-75k complete to sailaway. The 6.5 being sorta lower tech should be cheaper but how much? How much engineering($$) will have to go into the keel structure? The rule requirements specifying certain gear will push cost up...yes? A carbon rig this size would be how much with carbon spreaders etc? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 The rule requirements specifying certain gear will push cost up...yes? Actually the rules are written to minimise cost. A few years back they re-wrote them to eliminate lots of expensive materials. The rules are fair, clean and tight but do allow a fair amount of design variation, if you so desire. Basically a box rule with a lot of safety requirements to be built in to the boat. Things like escape hatches, fixed buoyancy and other stuff a semi-sane person would have anyway, also nothing different than it's bigger cuzzies have either. As for other safety gear, nothing more than any boat going offshore would normally carry or be expected to have, actually probably a little less in $$ terms as you only have to cater for 1 or 2 people. Don't forget these boats/race are very old now and date back to the pommes in the 70's, I think, maybe 60's actually. Then the French took over which has been both good (if you speak French) and bad (for all other languages). So the Minis have had lots of time and races to find out what is and isn't required, trim and tweak. For an ocean racing capable yacht you would be hard pressed to get anything rocking for less cost than a Mini, I think. I suppose you could go the 'pig rooter' way (whatever that maybe but 'slow' being the main call) but it's unlikely you'll be competitive. Obviously if you don't plan on taking one offshore, don't build in the safety requirements but then you'll knot technically be a Class Mini, just a cool fast 6.5mt yacht. Having done this pricing exercise on Minis and other similar boats (inc C950 and C40's) I can say you'll need more than $1.49 but the build methods talked about here and the group attack plan will mean you'll probably never get a Mini race ready for less bucks. Having done them before and then actually built a mini (or most of one) I'd be quite happy saying NZers do have the ability and nous to get one floating far better than most, if knot all, other countries. No that doesn't mean any new Minis will have No.8 Wire Rod rigging Sadly they don't make No.8 in stainless or just maybe .............. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Saturday Night Special Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 I think if you are prepared to do the work I.E loft and build ,I think and develop things yourself you might be surprised how cheap this can be done .If you want to buy a kitset and all the go fast bits straight out of the pack this is gonna cost you a lot true K1W1 winners develope the concept themselves I am working on a ply hull which will surprise prople just how cheap you can do this and I believe be competive and dont know how many times i have been told you cant do this but as a designer I have 1 interdominion 12 foot skiff title 1st kiwi designer since farr in 71 and several other national titles as well in other classes so I will post drawings of the big hard chine skiff hull in a few days R ig numbers will take a bit longer to calculate Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 I think if you are prepared to do the work I.E loft and build ,I think and develop things yourself you might be surprised how cheap this can be done .If you want to buy a kitset and all the go fast bits straight out of the pack this is gonna cost you a lot true K1W1 winners develope the concept themselves I am working on a ply hull which will surprise prople just how cheap you can do this and I believe be competive and dont know how many times i have been told you cant do this In with you on that. I get told often 'you can't do that' when in reality and with some thinking 'outside the box', of course you can. Good on Rat, go hard. Link to post Share on other sites
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