Electrical.

[PaulR 3]

see below post

[PaulR 3]

I would suggest all your 12V wiring be RED or BLACK

 

and all your 240V wiring be BROWN or BLUE.

 

They are both available as twin cable in insulation, in an outer sheathing. All tinned of course! Perhaps even having the 12V and 240V with different outer sheathing colours could help avoid problems.

 

This will allow you to easily identify the more dangerous 240V stuff easily.

 

Jaycar make a nice 5AG Panel Fuse Holder, ideal for your switchboard main supply and the smallest fuse is 30A. Cost is about $35(?) for holder + 2 fuses (1 spare for YNZ SRegs). Mind you the fuses are GOLD plated so you will have a real flash setup KM, even if the spa bath taps are plastic!!

 

Perhaps "flash" was the wrong word to use above

 

Never mind. You can use the electricians standard words now as you switch on:

"STAND BY FOR THE BIG FLASH"

[Guest]

Bit late Paul, it's all in the walls.

 

But due to historic events I always treat all wires as running 440V no matter what colour they are due to being chucked a few meters when I grabbed a boring dead green wire in a 12V system once.... it wasn't dead nor 12V. That one hurt.

[smithy09 50]

Yep it is common not to have a fuse. Although on small motors, it is quite possible to have a circuit breaker. You require a good size cable and a breaker that can protect the cable, yet still remain engaged for all starting situations.

In big engines, yes it is difficult to protect, apart from having the cable as short in length and direct run to the starter as possible. My engine is a 354Cubic inch Diesel and so is on the larger size for Sailboat motors. But small fry when you are talking about big mother engines in launches. By the way, I had 1800CCA of start battery. That's enough to do some nice welding with

Even if you have a section of the cook straight cable connected between battery and starter, the current the starter draws is huge. Even a little engine could draw 100+ Amps. The smallest of voltage drop across the cable results in huge power loss and power loss in cable is seen as heat.

But it is also a rare event. The situation I...err....this fella had was the terminal lug had a dead short to the Starter motor body. Once again, not a common thing to have happen. But this Moron had just rebuilt the Starter. He had bench tested it and it worked sweet. I....errr... I mean, the Moron still can't work out how that terminal shorted and passed the bench test. Anyway, the starter was not engaged. All that happened was that after I...errr...he connected everything uo, he simply turned the Isolator switch to on and went about a quick clean up and then I reached for the engine key and tunred it. Nothing happended. I went down stairs to the DC panel as there is a small breaker there for the start solinoid circuit and I thought maybe I tripped it. I looked at the DC panel and was shocked and puzzled as to why the Volts were reading about 4V and counting down toward Zero. I scratched my head and was trying to work out what was going on when I smelt a faint burning smell. Having just finished electrical work I immediately figured I had a problem back down in the engine room, and shot up stairs and without even a thought, I opened the hatch and an enormous cloud of smoke billowed out. That was a major shock, I simply didn't expect to be greeted with that much smoke. I couldn't see the isolators, but I knew where they were and reached down and found the thing by brail and turned the engine Isolator off. I turned the engine room extractor fan on, which thankfully was running off the house bank and then thinking that was all safe, got out of the boat and allowed about 10Min for the smoke to clear. I then went back to look at the damage and it was at this point that I saw the fuel hoses blowing the jets of fumes and realised my troubles were not over.

 

Got it. So the main starter cable going to the solenoid on the starter was somehow bolted directly to earth.. That would explain it.. Nice contact and plenty of csa plus lots of cranking amps behind it. Yes he invented an arc welder! Interesting though as I had never thought about protecting that circuit before.. Must have been exciting on the day!!

[wheels 543]

Must have been exciting on the day!!

There were several words used to describe it, but I don't think I used the word "exciting"

[Guest]

OK this is where I got too.

 

12V side -

We have the batteries (Thanks to Crews Rigger ) all series then paralleled or the other way around Whatever but where the power comes off it does read 12V so it must be right. All joined with 35mm welding cable. All inward (solar panel) or outwards leads connect to the 2 battery posts by the breaker, the 2 with the most wires on them.

 

Output goes thru that 40Amp breaker then to the Dist panel via a 16mm cable, which is the same size as runs from power poles into houses generally. The grey conduit running along the back of the box contains the 240V power in and while it looks to go into the breaker there is absolutely no connection between the 12 and 240V systems. I shifted the box from my original plan so the wires were put in knot the best spot so I made sure neither system could accidentally fall into each other. The 240V conduit turns into the house under that breaker.

 

On the right end side of the box, which is fixed to the ext wall, is a hole. In there will be a inverter. Currently it has a battery charger, the yellow lead is an extension cord from the main house to that charger but hasn't been plugged in for a week. At the moment the extension lead is just plugged into the waterproof switch to liven the 240V circuits so we can charge our cell phone. If we don't have that phone the entire world will stop revolving apparently

 

Also in the box at photo time is a small (7amp) solar regulator off a 40W panel which that 1.5mm household cable is running off to the batteries. Just checking things are working before fitting a 85W panel on the roof to a bigger flasher controller. The rush slowly no big BANG theory. A smoke detector was fitted early in the peace

 

240V side -

Basically from that waterproof switch in the right end box hole 2 wires run into the house. One the end of each wire is a std household single 240V switched plug. The idea being I plug the inverter direct into that waterproof plug which will liven those 2 std plugs. The wiring in the 240V side is all 2.5mm std household. There are no breakers or fuses but I'm working on the theory the extension cord is already so if we have to use a charger to top the batteries or power up the house we are fine. And the inverter will be fused so any meltdown happens that should trip out.

 

The panel- No 240V gets anywhere near this panel, she's all 12V only.

Like my meter board, handy what you can make out of a bread board and 3 $20 meters A nice LED display BEP version is 6 hundy odd notes = Ouch. The Volts shows battery voltage directly off the end of the 16mm cable input from the batteries. The 2 Ammeters (20Amp max) show power being used on the 2 x 12V power circuits, at photo time both circuits were switched off. These circuits are 2.5mm std household wire with ciggy female plugs on the end, 2 per circuit, being PE and PW. The L1 and L2 circuits are 1.5mm std house cable and each has 4 light fittings on the end of them. At this stage the max W per circuit would be 20, being 4 x 5W LED's. The 'B' circuit is 2.5mm cable and is the main feed for the bathroom. When finished that should have 1 x 1.2W fan (dunny) and 2 x 3W LED's lights running off it. The bottom switch isn't connected to anything. Each circuit on the panel has a 15Amp breaker.

 

The idea for having twin circuits on power and lights is if power gets tight we can just turn entire circuits off. The lights circuits run to std light switches before the lights. The power circuits turn off/on at the panel. The 2 x 240V circuits turn off at the plugs inside or at the big switch out in the box. So until I get the inverter off the boat, if I take the extension lead away there is No 240V power.

 

All wires run thru conduits which are waterproofed into both the box and house. The box has a solid as lid and is watertight. The box is vented so we don't get gas build up and explode.

 

At this stage the entire electrical system has cost approx. $300 all up, plus 8 LED bulbs. But Thanks to Mr Rigger we did save about $1000 by knot having to buy the batteries. So I'm thinking total cost if all was shop purchased would be close as $1700 all up. That includes fittings and a sheet of Plywood. Still to come is $600 worth of solar panel and controller so we'll be all go for close as 1K. The power in wire alone if we were to plug into a 240V power pole would be close as $600 then all the bits plus a sparky to do it....if you wanted to be fully legal.

 

So the questions are -

1 - See any potential f*ck ups?

2 - An I right about Inverters being fused?

3 - Right this moment the batteries read 12.95V (at the battery out terminals and meter ) where 1.5 hours ago they read 12.36 when I connected the 40W panel which has had good sun. It's a dicky smith smart controller with charge and float stuff according to the box. That sound like it's doing what should be expected?

4 - See anything that could be improved?

5 - should I leave the tops of the batteries loose or open so when charging they don't blow up?

 

and 6, See anything that makes you think BANG or have a phone handy to dial a fire engine?

[wheels 543]

Yep it sounds all OK. Certainly nothing leapt out of that lot and glared at me anyway.

Here's a thought, in the future, when you get over the shock of this cost, you could connect to the National Grid and actually sell power back to the country and start earning money with it.

[Guest]

That's nice to know. You always wonder when you play in a area you've spend so much time hiding from The project has been both fun and very educational, I've enjoyed it a lot.

 

I reckon that the cost of the electricals into the eco micro dwelling would be no more than plugging into mains power, even after buying the panels. Sure Rigger did save us a lot with the batteries but even so I still think there wouldn't be a huge difference, a few hundy maybe. Don't forget if it was all 240 we would have to put in transformers and lots of stuff you don't with 12V. I've a 85W panel with a Gucci 20amp controller on their way for 600 notes and they are both good name gear. I went with the 20amp controller so I can add up to another 150W's of panel/s if we need to.

 

Same with the Dunny. The composting option is a lot cheaper than fitting a std one. But that is partly due to having to run 50 odd meters of sewer main alone then a full water supply as well.

 

I have sussed a 2Kw system which can be grid tied for the big house. A lot of bucks and I'd say council issues with that. The big boat has an area set aside for 4 x 150W panels, which should do a large proportion of it's power needs. The price of panels is coming down quite quick. That 600 notes for the 85 and controller would have only got you a 50W panel 18 months ago.

 

I have a dude who wants to buy the eco micro dwelling and ad a sum that would pay for my labour on top of all the bits. Tempted to take the money and do another. The Mk2 wouldn't be that different but there are some tweaks that I'd like to do. I somehow think if I sold it, it may be delivered complete with a 14yo girl chained to it. She does like her place

[wheels 543]

There are a couple of people already supplying electricity back to the Grid. The Gvt made a law allowing us little people to do it as long as we are under a limit. I can't remember what that is, but think it was 10Kw. After that I think you get called commercial. Anyway, the few doing it so far are actually getting credits each month and I think they only have a 4Kw wind genny. Not big and certainly not rediculously expensive. If you wanted a complete self sufficient system that supplies everything, then that gets a bit expensive and still only economic for the places you can not get power into.

[Guest Dry Reach]

There are a couple of people already supplying electricity back to the Grid. The Gvt made a law allowing us little people to do it as long as we are under a limit. I can't remember what that is, but think it was 10Kw. After that I think you get called commercial. Anyway, the few doing it so far are actually getting credits each month and I think they only have a 4Kw wind genny. Not big and certainly not rediculously expensive. If you wanted a complete self sufficient system that supplies everything, then that gets a bit expensive and still only economic for the places you can not get power into.

 

 

Yip but the credits are charged back at between 6-8 cents a kilowatt (about the cost of generation). and mainly in summer where the solar/ wind systems are supplying more than the house is using and there is no heating.

 

My system does earn back a nominal amount in summer but in winter just keeps up! Mind you all my water heating is solar / wetback (with a ability to add a infinity system / LPG 45kgs cylinders if required). the wind gen and solar power system just look after appliances and lighting etc....

 

 

 

In Germany they get back 1.5 x the retail rate! which is a great incentive to disconnect from the grid (supply in) and sell back.

 

If that came in when i brought my system it would a good little earner.

 

 

 

My rental property (on the grid) average rate (what they charge me) is 15c per KW economy and 21c fixed,

[grant 40]

in Oz the buy back rate is twice the retail rate