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Marina Berth Docking, getting off a pier......


rigger

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several old threads combined - threads are separated by a line of =

 

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offshore

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:00 pm Post subject: Marina Berth Docking

 

I am keen to learn more about using marina berths - when they are advertised they are often listed as RHS or LHS.

 

If a keeler has a left hand turn prop, which is the better marina type to go for?

 

Also any helpful tips on solo / short handed docking appreciated.

 

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Ailys Comet

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:03 pm

 

Big question. No simple asnwer but a fundamental starting point to answering your ques is whether you prefer to dock stern-to or bow-to. Also what design your boat is and how prone it is to prop walk when going astern.

 

So more info on your boat and handling characteristics would help. Also the location of the berth and it's orientation i.e. whether it allows you to face into the prevailing (SW) winds. Having said that we've had a shed load of NE recently. _________________ Gone sailing for a while.....

 

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offshore

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:41 pm

 

Thanks for your interest Ailys Comet - I have not had the yacht long its an older cruiser about 10m 3/4 keel with skeg rudder. Docking will be bow on, and am looking to buy a marina (no preference but maybe Gulf), so want to get a better understanding on this before paying out $$. So would a LHS or RHS be better? All tips appreciated.

 

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Chernobyl

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 8:39 pm

 

I'm 'stern to' the marina in slot with no finger. The marina faces westish. I have monumental propwalk that drives the vessel sideways (port) with very little actual aft thrust.

 

Often Im solo and have provided patrons at sitting duck with hours of viewing pleasure. Propwalk is only an issue if you dont know how to use it. I motor ahead slow at 90 degrees ( ie across the face of slot) , into neutral 2 Bls from berth and then into reverse. My aim is to have the "reverse" kick in and gently move vessel against the pile to contact the vessel just forward of point of max beam. The propwalk then swings stern into the berth around the pivot point . Then into neutral and use boat hook to collect lines.

 

Also key is to have well set up and weighted lines of the correct length with big loops easily thrown over cleats to arrest any increse in speed delivered from the prevailing SW. If your lines are the right size one stern and one bowline will hold you giving you enough time to tidy up.

 

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Fusion

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 9:18 am

 

If your boat walks to port you want the finger on your port side. backin on an arc with the walk. With fenders on the port side you can then back down the finger using the fenders to stop you walking and slowly back in.

 

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Ailys Comet

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:45 pm

 

Left hand prop (i.e. anticlockwise looking at boat from behind) will kick stern to the left when going ahead and to the right when going in reverse.

 

You want to berth bow to. So ideally you want:

 

1. Your prop walk to nudge you snugly against the berth as you engage reverse to stop the boat at the end of the maneouvre

 

2. Your prop walk to bring you out facing the right way to exit the marina

 

So for example at Gulf Harbour you want a berth facing south (into prevailing winds) and berthing starboard side to.

 

This will allow you to drive in bow first with plenty of control and as you come to a stop by giving it a burst of reverse, your stern will kick to the right, pulling your boat against the berth. Perfect.

 

And when you reverse out of the berth, your stern will walk to the right (as you look forward) which means you will be reversing out and your stern taking you to the west. Your bow will be left facing east which is the direction of the exit of the fingers at GH. So once you have come out of your berth (as though you had reversed a car by turning the steering wheel right hand down) you will be facing the open water ready to go ahead and depart.

 

If I haven't explained this last bit well enough let me know and I'll try again.

 

In any case I'd recommend that you try renting a berth for a few weeks and getting the hang of it. First.

 

If you come to GH and want some practical help with berthing give me a shout. My fee is reasonable (payable in rum)! _________________ Gone sailing for a while.....

 

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offshore

PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 7:05 pm

 

Thanks all for the very useful advice - watch out for some interesting berth manouvering! Wink

 

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yzlian

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:01 pm Post subject: getting off the pier when pinched by onshore wind

 

Whenever it blows east sector winds I have a hard time getting the boat off the pier. I parallel park on the far end of a pier, starboard-side to, and oftentimes there is a boat docked in front of me, with no dock partition between us. East winds are beam-on my port. My screw puts my stern to port side when in reverse, and right to the port-stern is a marina pole.

 

Once I tried puttng the rudder hard to port and then throttle up, but the boat just moved stratight forward, as the east winds would not allow the boat to turn to port. Fortunately that time, there was no boat in front.

 

May be the problem is not just for singlehanders?

 

Any pointers? Thanks.

 

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Brien

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:30 pm

 

If there is enough room for your stern to swing to port you could try putting a line from the jetty near the stern Starboard side, through a fairlead near your bow. Motor on slow ahead with tiller turned to starboard. This should swing your stern out with your bow stationary. Release line and reverse out when stern well clear. Not sure if you now want to move ahead of your original position but if so continue reversing until you judge you have room to get way on to drive bow into wind.

 

If you use a long enough line to jetty you can tie both ends off near cockpit and release one end and pull thru and out of shore ring and fairlead all from cockpit.

 

Hope this gives you some ideas

good luck

Brien

 

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Sundreamer

PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 8:38 pm

 

take a line as far forward as you can get it and tie it onto the marina and back round a turning block to a winch on the starboard side. Put the boat in reverse with the rudder to port.

 

Once the prop gets a flow going, the stern should start to move out. Once you can see daylight behind you let the rope go. _________________

 

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David Lackey

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:57 am

 

Sundreamer and Brien remind me of what might be called a "trap for young players"

 

Let's say that you have doubled your spring line ( with the bitter end made fast to, say, your foward bits, the line passed around a cleat on the finger pier, and the other end temporarily cleated forward (or back to a winch), until it is let go at the magic moment when your stern is clear. It is quite important that the line is passed around the cleat in such a way that it does not jamb on itself when released.

 

Gulf Harhour marina adds a new and exciting dimension to the problem, however. The design of their galvanised cleats is such that instead of the line running freely around the cleat when released, it tends to jamb solid (they are in fact jamb cleats in disguise!).

 

Several times I have nearly dislocated nearly every bone in my body as Bintang has been brought to an abrupt stop, just as I revved-up to reverse away from the pier.

 

I am getting better at remembering!

 

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shanson Guest

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:52 pm

 

I'm on the bayswater waterbreak and often find this, heres what I do.

 

Make sure I have plenty of fenders, Drop both lines on the front & work to stern, turn tiller so the rudder is pointing the way I want to come out. Let go the pontoon side line. Pull on the pile line making sure that I am pulling across the boat so that it is moving sideways, I start to pull more astern as the boat gains way.

 

I keep an eye on the bow and use the tiller to stear (usually with my feet), once clear I shove her in reverse and motor alongside the boat behind me.

 

I cannot reverse out as I have wicked prob walk.

 

As for comming in solo I have a midhips line which I grab and wrap around a winch! easy as even in the 20 knot cross wind last weekend.

 

SHANE

 

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Ailys Comet

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:14 pm

 

Lots of good ideas but here's what I'd do. You're gonna have to squeeze a fender.

 

Drop 1 or 2 good fenders over your stbd bow. Fasten a line from a cleat on the dock somewhere near your stern and run it up to a cleat on your bow i.e. a long spring.

 

Run engine slow ahead with wheel/tiller turned to full stbd to encourage your stern to move out to port away from the dock. Release all your normal mooring lines so you now have only your new spring set.

 

Return to cockpit and gradually increase engine revs until your stern is pointing out at a comfortable angle from the dock e.g. 30 degrees. If in doubt go a bit further to allow for wind to push you back in a bit as you do the next bit.

 

If you had crew you would now return engine to neutral, ask them to cast off bowline and then you would go hard astern and reverse the rudder to take your stern out further.

 

You don't have crew so you need to give yourself a bit more time by forcing stern out a bit more before you put engine in neutral, go forward and cast off bowline (throw it onto the dock, don't worry about retieving it as you are coming back) and then return to cockpit to go astern with wheel/tiller now hard over to port to bring stern out to port as you reverse.

 

Given you have a heavy-ish displacement boat with a long keel you will have reasonable time to move forward, cast off your bowline and then return to cockpit before engaging astern. In a typical 15-20 E breeze at GH you should easily have 10-15s to so this which should be enough if you've kicked the stern out far enough.

 

I think I've seen you at the end of one of the piers, which one are you, F?

 

 

Put another way in pics (but reverse situation to yours):

 

 

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yzlian

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:20 pm

 

Thanks for all the great ideas. I'll digest them and try out! Joseph

 

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funlovincriminal

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:43 pm

 

Before you get too carried away, you'd better try this:

 

http://www.addictinggames.com/dockingperfection.html

 

A lot cheaper, and for every level you cock up, theres one less stinkboat in the world!

 

 

 

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Getting into a marina berth solo

 

Captain Haddock

PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:09 pm

 

Any suggestions for dealing with the steering, the bow lines and the stern lines all at the same time? Does it have to be a mad panic every time?

 

Coming alongside a full length peir is easy, you step ashore with a stern line and a bow spring line.

 

But what do you do with a 1/4 finger or no finger at all? Apart from having lots of fenders out...

 

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Crew.org.nz(a.k.a. Squid)

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:36 am

 

Try a single, short line from your point of max beam straight to the dock and a couple of big fenders. That should hold you in position long enough to sort out the other lines. I've used it single handed and it worked OK.

 

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John B

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:10 am

 

Every time is different depending on wind direction though isn't it. You need a different strategy for a screaming northerly v a classic sw.

When we were on the westhaven piles( pretty similar to a marina without finger), I set up rigid toplines instead of those weighted ones that carry the messenger lines . That worked really well as it would capture the bow of the boat . You'd get time to stall off and throw the sternline on ,and wander up to grab the bow line. That doesn't work if you like to back in though.

 

I'm impressed by a unit called a springon for single handing ( onto a finger berth) Its basically a heavy wire post say about 10mm that you can drop a line on as you come into the berth. We had the use of one for a while and refined a technique where we had a spring running amidships meeting an adjustable stern line with a loop held open by some pvc pipe. loop it over as you come in and shorten up the sternline part a little.

When you were stalled and tension was on, you could then put some forward power back on and the spring component would hold the bow up.

 

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Jono

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:26 am

 

Have a look at what I've got on P10 Westhaven if you are in Auckland. No finger and we back in all weather

Its a raised rope either side with a couple of floats holding it up. The boat can lay against it. Equally important is the cords connecting bow and stern ropes. I haven't needed a boat hook in years.

Looks a bit gooberish. Works a treat.

 

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Captain Haddock

PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:01 pm

 

Thanks for all the ideas everyone. I especially like the look of that spring on the bow Laughing

 

Could I put one on the stern and on either side as well?

 

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pwederell

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 9:49 am

 

It would help shorthanders immensely if the lubberly lot who build marinas actually put cleats on instead of those bloody awful mooring rings. On our boats we have a heavy U bolt 1/3 of the way from the stern which we run a back spring through and lead it back to the sheet winch (we have fitted cleats to our berths). Makes manouevering a 50 footer by yourself an absolute doddle, even in the surge we get from the ferries.

 

 

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If you see my comments above regarding the springon thing, John MacFarlane wrote an article in Boating NZ a month or so ago with photos and a drawing. Cheap to make or get made.

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I recently had one of those Spring Sticks made for my fathers berth.

If I remember rightly it was $160 from Hibiscus Engineering, which I think is very reasonable.

Its a very useful contraption - however you must own the marina berth, or have permission from the owner.

 

Also - the boating magazine says to run you spring from the bow. This is bad advice as it will cause the stern to swing out. It should be run from amidships. Otherwise it is a very good article.

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Also - the boating magazine says to run you spring from the bow. This is bad advice as it will cause the stern to swing out. It should be run from amidships. Otherwise it is a very good article.

 

not wrong - generally you want the stern to come off to allow for the cut of the prop when going astern - it is better to have the spring running from the bow (by bow I do not mean from right off the bow but more from the shoulder, not midships).

From midships might work for you but for me most of the boats / vessels I have manouvered from the shoulder works well, have used a line from midships but generally the boats do not have a point / lead amidships to use, and as I want to get the stern off the shoulder lead is great.

 

Different strokes for different folks and boats and different actions for different situations,

 

Have not read the article you refer to so if you could post a link it might help.

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Ok, I think we might be thinking of different situations.

 

The idea of the spring stick was to drop a spring line over as you enter the berth to help you stop the boat. Then once you are in you can run the engine slow ahead and the spring will keep you alongside the finger while you pick up the rest of your lines. Good for single handed...

 

You are right though, most boats don't have a cleat or a fairlead amidships. In fact we only have them at the bow and stern. I'm not quite sure where dad has his spring secured but he raves about how well it works.

 

With a crew on board we don't bother with it.

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Ok, I think we might be thinking of different situations.

 

The idea of the spring stick was to drop a spring line over as you enter the berth to help you stop the boat. Then once you are in you can run the engine slow ahead and the spring will keep you alongside the finger while you pick up the rest of your lines. Good for single handed...

 

You are right though, most boats don't have a cleat or a fairlead amidships. In fact we only have them at the bow and stern. I'm not quite sure where dad has his spring secured but he raves about how well it works.

 

With a crew on board we don't bother with it.

 

Understood :)

 

Coming in you can still use a spring from fwd but need more rudder. The problem I find is if you are relying on the spring to stop you if the speed is a little high it cn be an issue with the bow swinging in and doing damage.

 

Might be worth posting a pic of the setup you have :thumbup:

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