JJHG 0 Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Absolutely agree that OR has cheated, and been caught red-handed, but OR has been charged under the Racing Rules of Sailing (America’s Cup version) Rule 69 (Allegations of Gross Misconduct) and America’s Cup Protocol Article 60 (Protecting the Reputation of the America’s Cup), so intent is going to be important. Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Just when I thought there may be some actual information about RC being sacked, I have to read through a couple of pages of dribbling bull-sh*t about whether getting caught cheating is cheating or not. Good trolling - sh*t forum. Link to post Share on other sites
JJHG 0 Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Just when I thought there may be some actual information about RC being sacked, I have to read through a couple of pages of dribbling bull-sh*t about whether getting caught cheating is cheating or not. Good trolling - sh*t forum. It's obviously cheating, but how does the IJ determine the punishment, if they don't look at the facts of the matter? (If, for extreme example, someone from another team sabotaged OR's and BAR's boats, the punishment would presumably be lighter...) Not trolling, just interested in how the investigation is going to play out. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Here you go Fish. O-Fish-al confirmation that Coutts got that arse from the AC: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/artic ... id=3580581 Link to post Share on other sites
Murky 1 Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Here you go Fish. O-Fish-al confirmation that Coutts got that arse from the AC: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/artic ... id=3580581 Anyone else confused by... New Zealand America's Cup hero Russell Coutts has been sacked by the Swiss Alinghi team for repeatedly "violating his duties".... "Furthermore, in various press statements made early July, he [Coutts] declared that he was no longer part of the Alinghi Team." I quit/no you're fired? Link to post Share on other sites
John B 106 Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Lookit the date Murks. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 I can't understand what your last post was trying to say Dude... I can't understand why you're all taking the troll bait Having said that; it does add a little entertainment to the show. I just like giving people the benefit of doubt as he may have finally realised if he's a total dork yet again you'll push the button on him. Also in his moment of lucidity he's knot that fruit loopie and can often make some good sense..... bar that ludicrous suggestion 'intent' has any meaning or of any use in a protest room. And yeah, it is good entertainment Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 I think Mr Fish is most interested in the termination of Mr Coutts current employment contract as claimed by member Frans De Courts inside scoop. It's quite interesting to read all the claims that RC is a cheating bastard because of something someone said blah blah blah. Talk about tall poppy syndrome. On the face of it I cant really see why he would cheat in the 45's. Everything to lose and nothing to gain. He's not losing his "sir" to 2.5kg of lead. There is more to this story than meets the eye, Spot on Motorbike, We gave this guy a Knighthood for winning us the AC a few years back. The AC 45 world series means nothing to anyone, why jeopardise your reputation and actual defence of the AC on a nothing World Series that was only ever designed to drum up interest in the main event? IF RC has been sacked, this is pivotal in Oracle's defence of the cup, as it would be a signfiicant hinderence to the team's preparations. In addition, it is pluasable Oracle get banned from the AC, even though they are hosting it! What happens then? if you don't race for the Cup you can't win it, so ETNZ could be screwed. Logic would say if you get banned for cheating you don't get to keep the Cup, but if the defenders get banned, they could cancel the event, meaning they keep the Cup - its a loophole - not moral, but this is the rich tapestry of the event that adds to it.... Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJohnB 323 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Is this Frans De Court the same as the owner of Young Nick? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Is there an 'intent' clause in the 930 rules Knots? In any event it's all bollocks. The IJ is pretty unequivocal in it's findings. That can't be said for the other examples listed by Dud. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 In addition, it is pluasable Oracle get banned from the AC, even though they are hosting it! What happens then? if you don't race for the Cup you can't win it, so ETNZ could be screwed. Logic would say if you get banned for cheating you don't get to keep the Cup, but if the defenders get banned, they could cancel the event, meaning they keep the Cup - its a loophole - not moral, but this is the rich tapestry of the event that adds to it.... I wonder if OR could have AC points deducted in advance of the final? Would seem odd to deduct points from the AC over an AC45 infringment issue tho? Link to post Share on other sites
Deep Purple 511 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Is there an 'intent' clause in the 930 rules Knots? There was until the AGM last week. Lots of "in the spirit......". Rightly pointed out that since none could actually say what the "spirit" was, all reference was removed. As you were...... Link to post Share on other sites
B00B00 310 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 I really hope RC doesn't get the boot just yet. I want ETNZ to beat them fair and square on the water with RC still running the show, don't want any excuses.... I do think heads will roll and some people will get banned from sailing and/or the AC over this infringement. Regardless of the rule 69 protest outcome and final AC result I think RC will be finished with OR at the end of the cup. Link to post Share on other sites
Rangi1 50 Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 In addition, it is pluasable Oracle get banned from the AC, even though they are hosting it! What happens then? if you don't race for the Cup you can't win it, so ETNZ could be screwed. Logic would say if you get banned for cheating you don't get to keep the Cup, but if the defenders get banned, they could cancel the event, meaning they keep the Cup - its a loophole - not moral, but this is the rich tapestry of the event that adds to it.... I wonder if OR could have AC points deducted in advance of the final? Would seem odd to deduct points from the AC over an AC45 infringment issue tho? I believe the two classes have somehow been intertwined for this round of the cup, and believe the most likely penalty will include the forfeiture of some points in the AC final (along with banning of some personnel from competitive sailing for a reasonable length of time). A monetary fine will not hurt Oracle. You may recall that Prada got fined heavily for not taking their 45 to the AC opening party - evidence that the two are very related. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Is there an 'intent' clause in the 930 rules Knots? There was until the AGM last week. Lots of "in the spirit......". Rightly pointed out that since none could actually say what the "spirit" was, all reference was removed Whot SD said. Back in the day when a handshake sealed a deal yes then the 'Intent or sprit of' did work and was worth the paper it was written on but these days when events like the AC are promoted as the pinnacle of yachting it's no wonder that with the huge amount of dodgy sh*t that it always seems to generate everyone else also just does whatever they need to to win at all costs. So we can Thank Sir Dodgy and the AC mob for introducing very specific legal crap into the everyday level of the sport. Trickle down isn't always a good thing. Add in the fact it seems protesting is now as socially acceptable as giving cigarettes to 7 year olds, is it any wonder the only sprit left in yachting is often only 37 to 40% in glass containers. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 It would be nice to think that ETNZ could keep their eye on the ball. This other stuff is enormously interesting but, ultimately, irrelevant. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162- ... bit-risky/ Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 14, 2013 Share Posted August 14, 2013 Anyone else seeing Botox in that new clip? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 from sailracingmagazine. In the Scuttlebutt interview Coutts said the people who had carried out the modifications "feel horrible' and tried to suggest that the team's self imposed withdrawal from the ACWS which they clinched at the final regatta in Naples earlier this year, was in itself a significant punishment. "It is no small thing to withdraw from the AC World Series events when you have significant commercial partners involved, and you have a whole team of people who, depending on your view of this, may be tarnished by this incident," he said. more here http://www.sailracingmagazine.com/edito ... estigation and here Coutts doesn't believe the modifications affected the performance of the boats and maintains they were implemented without the knowledge of Oracle management. ''I don't think it's right that if a few people break a rule on a team of 130 people, that the whole team gets branded as cheats,'' Coutts said. ''I don't think it's right that other teams should use this as an orchestrated PR campaign to slander another team when there's a jury process going on and the facts haven't been established.'' Coutts' strong words today came after Sirena had hit out at oracle during a press conference to preview the Louis Vuitton Cup final. http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-spor ... llegations Link to post Share on other sites
Dude 0 Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 The management did not know!!! Yeah right!, the crew are modifying the boat without the managements knowledges. Link to post Share on other sites
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