Rudder rebuild cost?!

[flebea 0]

I recently had my ply rudder stock rebuilt and the top end of the rudder blade modified for my trailer sailer. Have just got the bill and have been charged for 26 hours labour (at $55 / h). It seems like a lot of labour for the job! Any boat builders out there who would care to comment how how long this sort of a job would / should take. The total bill is well over $1700! and the rudder wont do what the old one did! (ie wont tilt up out of the water as much and the stock sits in the water....however the workmanship is fine!)

[Guest Rocket]

I wouldn't pay it - could buy a boat for that much...

[Guest Dry Reach]

I recently had my ply rudder stock rebuilt and the top end of the rudder blade modified for my trailer sailer. Have just got the bill and have been charged for 26 hours labour (at $55 / h). It seems like a lot of labour for the job! Any boat builders out there who would care to comment how how long this sort of a job would / should take. The total bill is well over $1700! and the rudder wont do what the old one did! (ie wont tilt up out of the water as much and the stock sits in the water....however the workmanship is fine!)

 

Jeeez. they may be slow!... but their expensive!.

 

Did you get a piano maker to build it?

 

NAme and shame!

[Matty 0]

I recently had my ply rudder stock rebuilt and the top end of the rudder blade modified for my trailer sailer. Have just got the bill and have been charged for 26 hours labour (at $55 / h). It seems like a lot of labour for the job! Any boat builders out there who would care to comment how how long this sort of a job would / should take. The total bill is well over $1700! and the rudder wont do what the old one did! (ie wont tilt up out of the water as much and the stock sits in the water....however the workmanship is fine!)

 

 

they must have charged for the time the epoxy and paint took to dry!

[wheels 543]

How was it finished Flebea ? Three days may or may not be a lot of time. It does depend on size, what was involved in modifying and several other points that are left out of the story.

$270 for Ply, Glue, Glass, Paint and sanding materials. Not too bad materials wise.

$55/hr is about average.

It's just whether it is a 26hr job is the real big question.

 

So what was size?

Was the orignal Tiller used or was it new also?

How many layers of ply laminated?

How many layers of glass?

Was it prepared and painted?

Were there any fittings?

 

I know it sounds a lot, but we are running into a big problem here in NZ with costs. They are climbing steeply and us poor end user is paying through the teeth for it.

[Guest]

Send Gary a pm FnG

[Murky 1]

Unappealing as it may seem, the best person for you to take this up with is the one who did the work. I have had both sorts of outcomes from that process - the good ones will swallow their pride and give you a genuine explanation and you can come away thinking "hey, there really was a lot of work in that job." and sometimes, they go back and check their timesheet and find they have double-counted some time.

[Guest]

How about a photo to get the true picture.

[Fish 0]

Steady on Guys, need to know the full picture here, KM and FnG are asking the right questions.

 

We recently had to do a bit of work on our rudder. Got the boat builder to do the important bits, we did most of the prep / stripping back then the fairing / sanding - grunt work to cut down on costs. No point paying a capable professional $$$/hr if you could do it yourself or if your not preparded to pay for him to do it.

[Fish 0]

Sorry meant Wheels not KM - no offence Wheels

(Actually, who would be most offended there?)

[Guest Dry Reach]

Steady on Guys, need to know the full picture here, KM and FnG are asking the right questions.

 

We recently had to do a bit of work on our rudder. Got the boat builder to do the important bits, we did most of the prep / stripping back then the fairing / sanding - grunt work to cut down on costs. No point paying a capable professional $$$/hr if you could do it yourself or if your not preparded to pay for him to do it.

 

 

Yeah yeah... but 26hrs is about 3 full days work!!

 

And it does'nt work properly.

 

would love to see photo's. Gee, if its three shaped pieces of ply glued together and glassed then a tiller put in it then if it sits in the water and does not allow the modified rudder to fold up. It will be very interesting!

 

Sounds like a apprentices sunday afternoon off job!... charged at "super yacht' rates.

[Guest]

Sorry meant Wheels not KM - no offence Wheels

(Actually, who would be most offended there?)

 

ME!!!!! I'm way better looking

 

But I would say just what Wheels did so no biggie. Need photo to suss the extent really. It does sound steep to me that's for sure.

[wheels 543]

Sorry I didn't understand it wasn't working properly. I had assumed you meant the Mods mean it doesn't do what the old one did, but that was part of the new design. So Aside from the price, that has to be put right if it was part of the original requirments and understanding. The job must work or it is not fit for the prupose in which it is intended for.

Till we know more about the rudder diamensions and hopefully a pic, then trying to guess if 26hrs is enough or too much is a hard one and a very poor guess by any of us. And if you would rather, PM FNG as he is probably the most clued in manufacture and pricing.

[Guest Dry Reach]

wheels, A mate of mine had a nolex 25 rudder stock fabricated and welded and anodized in 5083 alloy in january, it included new fittings and mods to the rudder blade(strentghening).

 

It had a elaborate tiller support / fold up doofer and was extremely well made.

 

Labour hours was 8.5 hours.

 

His bill was $850.00 all up.

 

sometimes the cheap (this guy has used ply) timber option is the expensive low quality option.

 

 

But like yopu say until we see details and photo's who kows? but a ply stock???

 

Maybe this guy is a craftsman and has done some exotic layup worthy of grand piano status?

 

pring on the photo's

[tuffyluffy 76]

Im just astounded that flebea didnt get a 'ball-park' figure from the builder before he gave him the work, or at least request a progress report so he could keep track of expences!

 

Certainly 26 hours seems like alot, but without hearing from the builder, we've only got one side of the story and we've got no understanding of what flebea asked him to do, exactly.

[flebea 0]

I will try and post a pic, but the laptop has died! I have asked for a breakdown of the labour from the guy. Yes, I know I should have got a quote, but didnt think the job would be a major! I did the final sanding and painting myself. My issues (beyond the price!) is that the rudder doesnt come right out of the water anymore (I often anchor stern in close in to the beach so the rudder would now be vunerable). It now only comes up to right angles to the transom. Also the bottom of the rudder stock now sits in the water by a good few inches.

[wheels 543]

Right well you have to give him the chance to put it right. And it has to be up to doing the job. If the job was to replace the rudder and have it work just like the old one, then it has to be just like the old one. If the mod, which haven't outlined, means the new rudder simply can never work like the old one, then that is kind of on your shoulders. Although it would have been nice to think the guy could have told you the down falls, or if he carried out a trial fitting before glassing, he shoudl have picked up the problem and given you a call and asked what you wanted to do. If you gave him a drawing and said I want this, then that is on your shoulders also.

And if you did the sanding and painting, well yeah that cost is starting to get a little steep.

 

Dry Reach said,

It had a elaborate tiller support / fold up doofer and was extremely well made

Labour hours was 8.5 hours.

His bill was $850.00 all up.

That seems a little on the low side. That leaves ruffly $400 for materials assuming the labour rate was $50/hr and most engineering is well above that now. $400 for Ally, Welding consumables, finishing consumables and then sending to someone to anodise. I would be expecting Anodising to take up a good part of that $400. At least half a sheet of say 4 to 5mm plate. There's a couple of Hundred without even doing anything.

[Guest Dry Reach]

Right well you have to give him the chance to put it right. And it has to be up to doing the job. If the job was to replace the rudder and have it work just like the old one, then it has to be just like the old one. If the mod, which haven't outlined, means the new rudder simply can never work like the old one, then that is kind of on your shoulders. Although it would have been nice to think the guy could have told you the down falls, or if he carried out a trial fitting before glassing, he shoudl have picked up the problem and given you a call and asked what you wanted to do. If you gave him a drawing and said I want this, then that is on your shoulders also.

And if you did the sanding and painting, well yeah that cost is starting to get a little steep.

 

Dry Reach said,

It had a elaborate tiller support / fold up doofer and was extremely well made

Labour hours was 8.5 hours.

His bill was $850.00 all up.

That seems a little on the low side. That leaves ruffly $400 for materials assuming the labour rate was $50/hr and most engineering is well above that now. $400 for Ally, Welding consumables, finishing consumables and then sending to someone to anodise. I would be expecting Anodising to take up a good part of that $400. At least half a sheet of say 4 to 5mm plate. There's a couple of Hundred without even doing anything.

 

Wheels, remember most fabricator or engineers have plenty of alloy lieing around. (This guy builds fuel tankers and boats), and the cheeks of stock are not large (you would get the whole stock out of 1 - 1.5Sq/M). Anodising , with another customers product run, was $80.00.

 

Pays to shop around.

[Guest]

One of the guys in Welly got a spin pole anodised for $35, which I thought was pretty good considering the nice finish achieved.

[wheels 543]

Wheels, remember most fabricator or engineers have plenty of alloy lieing around.

While that is true, even scrap is stock if you can use it. Unless the Engineer is a mate of the rudder owner and does it for a mate rate. But then that is hardly fair for comparison.

Ally is damn expensive at the mo. It is getting up there with SST. Then you have a specialised welder and specialised Gas. The Engineer is being a fool if he is not covering for those. The Wire is not so bad thankfully. That is one area in SST I have a big annoyance over. I just bought a 15Kg roll of SST Mig wire. It cost me $700 ruffly.

You have to plasma cut the Ally. The cutting tips don't last long. They cost me rufly $50 a set.

Anodising is not too expensive. $30 odd for a spin pole would be about right. It is a slow process and one of the biggest issues is finding a firm with a tank big enough to take a rudder. I do my own anodizing. It is a lot of fun and quite easy. I don't get into dye colouring as that is playing with some nasty chemcals and you can't easily get rig of the waste materials.