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Rudder rebuild cost?!


flebea

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Guest Dry Reach

Wheels, i think i see where you may be calculating the cost wrong.

 

Are you adding a rudder into the costings? (Comment above)

 

This is a trailor sailor Stock that the rudder slots into and attaches to the pintels / gudgeons / stern. the material is minimal. Infact is you use a alloy square tube "frame design" it is very low. if you use plate it is also quite low due to the size.

 

If he was building an elaborate stock and rudder then i would say it's about right.

 

I built a 24 foot Keelboat rudder with SAF tapered stainless shaft (with tgangs welded on), H100 klegicell HD foam, Shaped and glassed with an elaborate carbon layup last year and had change from $1500.00.

 

This FleaBea is just ply and glue job. i cant wait for the photo's

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Guest Dry Reach

Fort So!

 

Being the sites tech manager you have to juggle alot between all the threads. You may need a pay rise! Whats a 100% of zero? :lol: . :thumbup:

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Righto, back online with a new laptop!

Took rudder back to boat builder and discussed issues. He is going to take a notch out of the rudder to allow it to swing up further when not in use. He said that it doesnt matter that the rudder stock bottom is in the water as there will be turbulence from the stub keel anyway. Im not convinced about that. If I get him to blow the bottom off the rudder stock then that will weaken it. any suggestions? Also got a reply from the office regarding the bill. Apparently the cost reflects the "fidlyness" of the job!!!Havent paid the bill yet. Any suggestions?!

Ruddersmaller.jpg

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Jeez Flebea, now that I see the photo, that shouldn't have been a big job if it was the rudder stock only. The stainless? fitting on top that connects the tiller would perhaps have taken a bit of work but that was possibly carried across from the old one. Probably can't trim a hell of a lot off the bottom without getting close to the lower gudgeon but it looks like it would only need 30mm to get it clear of the water and that is achievable.

 

So yes, I would be standing your ground. And probably striking this supplier off your list. I guess you are going to come up against the questions of how expectations around design and price were communicated beforehand.

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Flebea, can you be very clear as to what was done here. Are we including the blade? What about the SST component? and what about the tiller? oh and the gudgeons?

Or are you refering to the yoke or finger part (yes I know that's the stock, just wanting to be clear what is included) that the blade is slotted into??

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Guest Dry Reach

flea bea. regarding the rudder kick up issue. the Builder is having you on!.

 

The stock should not protrude below the waterline and if he built it as such and relocated the bolt higher to match the radius as it pertains to a "shortened stock" the rudder would have been cleared the water when tilted.

 

Strength would not have been compromised by making the stock the right size so as to not drag through the water! all he had to do was make the stock stonger in the pintal/gudgeon area to accomodate the shorter distance between the lower gudgeon/pintal and the bottom of the shortened stock (wider / thicker).

 

Some / most boats have the lower pintal right on the bottom of the stock and the pivot pin well above the lower pintal!. this ensures the rudder kicks up above the water and ensures the stock is not creating drag! this could have easily been done here with a bith of thought and no extra cost!

 

The stock should never be creating drag by being that low in the water!. Or? is you boat sitting below its waterline.

 

Q;- does the stock protrude beneath the hull?

 

This stock is 3 peices of ply glue together. 2 side cheeks and a cente "fillet" (with the bottom curved to accomodate the rudder)

 

If you build a stock exactly the same and took 90-100mm (or whatever it required to be level with the waterline) of the bottom of the stock and moved the centre 'pivot" bolt up accordingly (and the centre fillet) then made wider (side elevation) cheeks on the stock it would have been fine.

 

The design of the rudder you have had very little thought as to the waterline, drag, and kick up issues.

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Just to be very clear, the stainless bit at the top / the rudder blade / the tiller are all carried over from the old. The only new bit is the middle! He did do rebuilding of the rudder blade. Not sure how I can stand my ground when a clear quote wasnt given (yes, a very expensive lesson learnt by me!). However, i think I might show him this thread and get his comments. I do think that I have been taken for a ride!

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You should talk to rob denny of another thread. He can build 50ft sailing boats for $35k so based on that could build you a whole new rudder for $100.00 :wink: :roll:

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Thanks DryReach!

To answer your questions, the stock doesnt protrude beneath the hull. The boat is not sittng below its waterline (photo taken with no one on board). The bottom of the stock sits a good couple of inches below water.

The issue is now how it can be remedied as he is not interested in re-doing the whole job.

The rebuild of the blade was at the top. He said he had to build it up to fit into the stock, but surely you would make the stock fit the rudder if that is the only bit that needed doing!?

I am also wondering if I can put a spacer onto the pintle to raise it all up a little...?

I could recond my beloveds a 4agze motor and supercharger for him for the price of my "new" rudder!!!!

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Flebea, what can be done in a situation like this, is you can get quotes from other yards, and if they all come in dramatically cheaper, then under the CGA, you have full legal right to pay that lower amount. In fact you have a legal right to pay what you think is fair. But how that is arrived at can be a little difficult if the other guy is difficult. So this other way gives you a benchmark to work from.

 

Quoted from the Act

Reasonable price

If a price for the work has not been discussed with the service provider, you do not have to pay a price which is unreasonable in the circumstances.

 

Example: you hire a plumber to repair a leaking tap. The price was not discussed because you were in a hurry. You have had plumbing work done before so you were expecting the bill to be approximately $45. You are very surprised when a bill arrives for $120. You find out that plumbers normally charge $55 for this type of job so you only have to pay $55.

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Guest Dry Reach

Good call wheels.

 

You could alter what you have by cutting of the radius bottom (by enough to clear the water or to within say 25mm of the bottom pintal), moving the bolt hole up ther same amount and re shaping the internal fillet to accomodate the rudder. Would have to see the area between the cheeks where the rudder blade sits.

 

but... you may have to beef up the side cheeks, from the top pintal down(with more around the bottom pintal/high stress area), with some grunty glass / resin lay up to give strength.

 

These type of rudder/stock arangements don't load up much when the rudder blade is dead verticle, only when the ruddder blade slips up (aft) or is folded up.

 

Get the local B/ builder to look and give a recomendation.

 

a simpler method that may work (without see the "drama" in action)

 

You could also reshape the affected (drag in the water bit) area whith a bullnose 1/2 rounded shape for the water to flow around (add timber or shape existing)

 

also you could take a bit of timber out of the middle section (fillet) to allow the rudder to flip up more and clear the water.

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Guest Dry Reach

oh yeah! solotion three...

 

 

go out on a fully loaded up reach (big bag on. Kite that is) and give it heaps until the thing breaks and then take it back and demand your money back! :wink: :lol:

 

P.S> Take a big mean fella with heaps of facial tatts with you!

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It does seem expensive, and it also seems like a long job to get it wrong.

One question, did the said person paint it as well ?

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