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A Word from YNZ


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#21 Rehabilitated

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 11:25 AM

Agree with BoIguy. We can learn from this.

 

 

Do you really think CAT 1 will be discontinued because the Committee of the GGR took / had a lot of critics plus the race caused so many S&R's and must have come close or had writs on them for liability claims.


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#22 Ladyhawk

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 11:28 AM

"Imo. relevant to Cat 1 and if taken with a dose of common sense could / should make cat 1 redundant"

 

you've missed this line Rehab.... and Steve Pope is right, its very relevant to the topic. Something along the lines of, "if a solo round the world race does not lay down the law with regard to what the vessels are compelled to carry, then maybe our own overbearing CAT1 requirements should be relaxed" ?


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#23 Rehabilitated

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 11:41 AM

"Imo. relevant to Cat 1 and if taken with a dose of common sense could / should make cat 1 redundant"

 

you've missed this line Rehab.... and Steve Pope is right, its very relevant to the topic. Something along the lines of, "if a solo round the world race does not lay down the law with regard to what the vessels are compelled to carry, then maybe our own overbearing CAT1 requirements should be relaxed" ?

 

 

You missed the point re my last posting. THE GGR has virtually no credibility when it comes to race organization and accepting responsibility or reducing deaths during a organized race. They are not even insisting on a certified life raft or E.P.I.R.B.

 

If you don't insist on some things then there will be idiots that will race / cruise off shore with no E.P.I.R.B. / life raft / SSB / Medical kit / life jackets. ETC. Like a USA TRI wanted to go into the southern ocean without a life raft because he had dry suits / wooded tris do not sink and argued he did not need a life raft. I refused to crew so he decided not to go the southern ocean but as per my recommendations a direct route to Tahiti. Just as well because his newly NZ repaired centre boat which snapped off - snapped off again in moderate conditions let alone be side on to 20 metre swells and 80 kts winds speeds / numerous  954 HA low pressure depressions weather systems.


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#24 Fish

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 04:43 PM

Like a USA TRI wanted to go into the southern ocean without a life raft because he had dry suits / wooded tris do not sink and argued he did not need a life raft. I refused to crew so he decided not to go the southern ocean but as per my recommendations a direct route to Tahiti. Just as well because his newly NZ repaired centre boat which snapped off - snapped off again in moderate conditions let alone be side on to 20 metre swells and 80 kts winds speeds / numerous  954 HA low pressure depressions weather systems.

I can't believe you applied your own judgement to this Rehab! surely there is some 3rd party with greater authority to defer to, such as a govt department, or some pointed headed clip-board carrier, that are in a superior position to advise if you should have made this decision on your own? I mean, after all, making decision based on your own judgement is fraught with risk. You could be wrong, or worse still, not completely right. You might even need to take responsibility for your own decisions, or something...

 

Infact, I'm astounded you were allowed to make your own decision on this. How is it, in this day and age, that grown adults are allowed to make decisions for themselves? Anyone would think they are best placed to assess the risks and consequences...

 

Which sounds a hell of a lot like the thoughts of many people who resent having prescribed and mandated lists of requirements from third parties, on the basis that those requirements are best for their boat and situation, i.e. YNZ Cat 1 requirements. Which I think is the underlying them the original poster was trying to point out in this thread...

 

 

And a question to ponder, if you are already on a raft, what good is another raft?


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#25 BOIGuy

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 06:12 PM

How is it, in this day and age, that grown adults are allowed to make decisions for themselves? Anyone would think they are best placed to assess the risks and consequences...

 

 

I don't think its really about grown adults being allowed to make decisions for them selves, more a case of a grown adult being able to make a decision for them self but not allowing any one else to do the same.


Edited by BOIGuy, 20 August 2019 - 06:12 PM.

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#26 Rehabilitated

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 11:42 AM

I can't believe you applied your own judgement to this Rehab! surely there is some 3rd party with greater authority to defer to, such as a govt department, or some pointed headed clip-board carrier, that are in a superior position to advise if you should have made this decision on your own? I mean, after all, making decision based on your own judgement is fraught with risk. You could be wrong, or worse still, not completely right. You might even need to take responsibility for your own decisions, or something...

 

Infact, I'm astounded you were allowed to make your own decision on this. How is it, in this day and age, that grown adults are allowed to make decisions for themselves? Anyone would think they are best placed to assess the risks and consequences...

 

Which sounds a hell of a lot like the thoughts of many people who resent having prescribed and mandated lists of requirements from third parties, on the basis that those requirements are best for their boat and situation, i.e. YNZ Cat 1 requirements. Which I think is the underlying them the original poster was trying to point out in this thread...

 

 

And a question to ponder, if you are already on a raft, what good is another raft?

 

You can't be serious.

 

Do not need to ponder. 

 

A question for you FISH to ponder = have you ever sailed long distances on international ocean waters? 

 

A raft a 55ft lightweight  tri. The southern Ocean would have smashed it into little pieces in a very short time. A small swell smashed it's newly repaired NZ centre board reaching in 16 kts winds speeds. I been on a 70 ft wooden tri in the tropics that a 3 meter swell smashed the under wing deck, lockers and tore the fibre glassing from the opposite port hull. They where going to take the southern ocean route despite leading me to believe we were not and that we were taking a direct route to TAHITI as I as navigator and the only person that qualified for Cat 1 with previous off shore experience and restricted radio licence and celestial navigation abilities. Two days before leaving three wise men in three piece suits who I have never met or seen before casually came and stood next to me as I was admiring Sir Mike big boat at the viaduct basin and said to me that my decision to go direct to the Atolll was the correct decision and not to go into the southern Ocean without introducing themselves or leading in with some small talk. They must have known that the captain was going to take the southern ocean route despite lying to me he was not.  I thanked them for reinforcing my insight / decision and they quietly walked away with small smiles and nods. We departed and I went to my cabin to get a nap before my watch thinking the captain was sailing to my programmed chart plotter agreed course. Some 1 to 2 hours latter something woke me to discover we were sailing south and not north east as per chart plotter course. Asked the helmsman what are you doing, reply we are going down to the southern Ocean. I called the skipper to put into Whitianga or call a helicopter as no way was I going to the southern ocean after viewing the weather from Freemantle to the cape for months and weather being my forte. He pondered for a moment and told the helmsman to alter course and steer as per chart plotter course. Consequently I stayed on board as if he had put into Whitianga and I left the vessel he would breaking regulations and there would have been no person on board with experience or Skills in accordance with the NZ regs. It is quite easy making sane and logical decisions. Why do the modern life rafts and most authorities recommend double insulated life raft floors for non tropical waters rather than single floor, which does not include the southern ocean temperatures, How long do you think one would survive in a dry suit submerged in the southern ocean waters waiting for weather conditions to prevail for a rescue attempt if the E.P.I.R.B. did not mal function. I have been in seas not as big as the southern ocean waves just east off cook strait 50 ft height 90 kts plus wind speeds and I know there power / force and if there is a better way I have learnt to take it with all available means at one disposal and not rely on others to come forth and aid. I would probably guess correctly that if both off us was in a southern ocean storm and I called for assistance you would not respond.


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#27 Island Time

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 12:11 PM

Rehab, Fish was being sarcastic. He meant you made the right decision, contrary to our current common situation where others with authority try to make decisions for you. It was a bit of a cryptic compliment the way I read it.
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#28 Rehabilitated

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 01:29 PM

Rehab, Fish was being sarcastic. He meant you made the right decision, contrary to our current common situation where others with authority try to make decisions for you. It was a bit of a cryptic compliment the way I read it.

 

  My school teacher at secondary school taught me that sarcasms' is the lowest form off wit. I automatically since then tune off to sarcasms 

 

See post

 

 http://crew.org.nz/f...den-globe-race/


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#29 Rehabilitated

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 01:33 PM

From the Golden Globe Race Committee: Imo. relevant to Cat 1 and if taken with a dose of common sense could / should make cat 1 redundant

 

The changes to the notice of race may surprise many. We do NOT mandate a drogue or special storm training or mandatory guidelines on masts and spars, as some suggest we could. In fact we have dropped all previous regulations that existed on masts and spars (other than lengths) and are leaving this critical issue entirely to the skippers. This is in the true spirit of the GGR. They know what to expect. We and they, are and have been, talking about it at length. Their riggers and mast makers are acutely aware of the serious challenge. they saw what happened. anything we mandate is not relevant. If the GGR said entrants must have a rig like X with Y and include Z, we would be creating a one design fleet, which no one wants.

In relation to storm tactics and equipment like storm drogues, no individual or expert exists with a sure solution, or the ultimate answer. Every boat, storm, wave pattern and situation IS different, so we will NOT regulate what the entrants must do, or should have. Like all good sailors, we keep discussing it, learning and researching, then make our own decisions and face our own destiny. their life is in their hands. If there is one thing all entrants are very aware of and serious about, it is how they plan to survive the Southern Ocean. They do not need us to tell them and we have no guarantee to give.

 

See thread for a different perspective

 

http://crew.org.nz/f...den-globe-race/


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#30 Black Panther

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 02:05 PM

Just make cat 1 optional for cruisers. Racing is dying here anyway.
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