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Affiliation Fee Double Dipping


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#1 grantmc

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 08:27 AM

The current system of affilioation fees makes no allowance when people are members of more than a single Club. In my view this is double dippping. It is relatively common for people to be members of more than one Club.

Why does the YNZ affiliation fee calculation make no allowance for members paying subscriptions to multiple clubs?
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#2 Willow

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 11:05 AM

I agree, individual membership of YNZ would be better, would take the burden off the Clubs.
Individuals would still have to belong to YNZ and the Clubs could just pay a very small fee for Affiliation.
Would it work?
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#3 gurge

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 06:44 PM

To race dirtblikes you need a license. And you can only get a licence with proof of membership from a club. So you could do something similar. No license and the entry fee is dearer and mnz get a cut of that.
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#4 Guest__*

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Posted 09 December 2013 - 05:05 PM

Under review http://www.yachtingn...013 - DRAFT.pdf

Or how about clubs that charge you a full $46 even when your membership is one third a SEM? :D
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#5 grantmc

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 06:26 PM

Or how about clubs that charge you a full $46 even when your membership is one third a SEM? :D


Wild Oats. Not sure what you mean by the statement above, please explain.

Also in reviewing the material accessed by the link you provided, I noted that the YNZ surveys never asked 'How many/what percentage of your members are also members of other affiliated boating clubs?' or similar.
Very dissapointing that YNZ have chosen not to reply to my question.

Ogre perhaps YNZ don't actually want a forum, perhaps it was a mistake.
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Grant Mc

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#6 Guest__*

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 06:50 PM

Stay calm, I'm sure a response will appear, he does other things as well.
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#7 Guest__*

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 06:52 PM

Ogre perhaps YNZ don't actually want a forum, perhaps it was a mistake.


Its one guy on behalf of yachting new zealand and last time he wasnt on here to answer a question in a timely manner he was overseas...you never know why an answer hasnt come yet.
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#8 Guest__*

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Posted 10 December 2013 - 06:56 PM

Or how about clubs that charge you a full $46 even when your membership is one third a SEM? :D


Wild Oats. Not sure what you mean by the statement above, please explain


You pay YNZ based on Senior Equivalent Member (SEM). That means you divide the total subscription take by the amount of a senior subscription to get the number of "members" for which you pay $46 each. So every club will be paying a different amount to YNZ per actual member. This is why it is impossible to work out how much double dipping there is because in each club pays a different amount for you so how do you know how much to claim back.

Sooooooo if a club has several classes of subs, say Junior $50, Social $250, Senior $500, Family $750 then they will pay to YNZ the following amounts for each member - Junior $4.60, Social $23, Senior $46, Family $69. If the club has a lot of junior or social members then the levy will be less than $46 per real member

And say a senior member joins halfway through the year then and the club only charges 6 months sub $250, then that club will only have to pay $23 to YNZ

However I know of one club and there may well be more that levies each member $46 per year regardless of subscription or period, in which case the lesser subs and part years are at best subsidising the families or more likely just adding a bit more money to the club.

Maybe clubs should have the senior membership at $5000 (which nobody uses) and family at $500 (which every uses) and cuts the levy by 90%. Just kidding :D
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#9 YNZ

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 01:43 PM

Thanks for your patience, yes, it is a busy time of year for us at YNZ as I'm sure it is for all of you in your jobs. However, I try and put time aside a couple of times a week to check on the whole forum and reply to issues raised in "YNZ Talk". Between doing that, I am also trying to provide items of interest in here to keep the "YNZ Talk" forum engaging. Personally I think this forum has been quite successful to date.

With that said...

The YNZ constitution stipulates that the primary member of YNZ is the club, not an individual. At present having individuals as the direct primary affiliate is not an option.

Wild Oats has covered off most of the points nicely. Currently YNZ levies clubs using a method called the SEM (Senior Equivalent Member) / NSM (Notional Senior Member) system which is not a per member levy system. Not every club member in NZ pays $46, if we divide the amount collected by YNZ from clubs by the number of club members in NZ it works out to be about $18 per head.

Yes, there are clubs that charge every member $46, they call it the YNZ fee and keep the extra money over and above what YNZ actually levies them. Alternatively there are many clubs who do not itemise a YNZ fee on their subscription invoice at all and simply treat the YNZ levy as an expense such as insurance, booze and rates.

If someone chooses to belong to more than one club, that is their choice and they pay a subscription to belong to that club, not YNZ. The club pays a levy to belong to YNZ, and this should not necessarily be charged directly back to members, and in a lot of cases not at $46 per member as the YNZ levy is not a per member affiliation model.

The SEM/NSM system is not perfect. We are currently undertaking a review of the way clubs contribute to YNZ by way of affiliation fees. We have been working with Sport New Zealand and have brought on Kelly Fong (Mulcahy) to undertake a membership modelling exercise.

We know what various methods other sports are using and the ups and downs of each; now we are going through the exercise of collecting actual membership data (numbers and categories) from clubs. Once we have enough data from a spread of clubs across NZ, big and small, mixed membership and sailing only, then we will model what the real impact of changing to another system will look like for clubs and members and YNZ. Graded levies, depending on what type of member you are and taking in to account multiple memberships will all form part of the exercise.

We hope to present findings and feedback to Clubs at the Commodores Conference in June 2014 and of course through Briefings, the web and Crew.org.

Lastly, if you are not getting a reply as quickly as you might like my phone number is (09) 361 4021 and my email is andrew@yachtingnz.org.nz, feel free to contact me on either of those.

Cheers :)
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#10 Willow

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Posted 11 December 2013 - 08:41 PM

So if it averages out at $18 per head why don't you just charge that instead of a formula that makes some clubs subsidise others?
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Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

Theodore Roosevelt

 





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