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School me on an offwind sail...


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Guys - This forum really is a locus of performance multi info.  I appreciate your input.

 

After about 25 daysails on Terrapin now, I'm thinking more about my tasks over the winter in rigging a sprit and buying an offwind sail.  I want to buy one sail, and hopefully be able to single-hand it up to 12 to 15 knots max TWS.   Above that, I won't break it out unless I have crew.

 

Under main and blade jib, I currently can get to 90 AWA before the boat speed starts to fall off.  In 12 to 14, that means I am only about  20 degrees from dead down wind.   Not so terrible.

 

I would consider a code Zero, but my experience crewing on an F-28R was that our assym spin smoked another  F-28R similar boat with a code zero.   20 minutes on a 15 mile broad reach though pretty close to 90 AWA.

 

So, for my 8.5 GBE-ish cat - What downwind sail should I get?  Primary use is 40 daysails a season, half single handed, a couple of races per season.  Sprit will be 2 meters long.  Spinnaker halyard exit just above the hounds (not a mast head spin.).

 

My gut says a modest assym on a furler, but which one?   Where does a "screacher" fit into the mix?  Is it just an A3 assym spinnaker?   A fuller code zero?

 

Here's a light air look at Terrapin.  This is an example of our common summer daysailing conditions...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhjhQmLYNpc

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I used to have a gennaker furler on my F27R.

One of the ones that has a foam type line - top down furling. 

Worked well but not kind to the sail so I'd get it made from some heavier cloth.

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I'd go for an assym spin. What we call a screecher is basically a small code zero, use from fairly tight in light situations (close to upwind) to reaching to broad reaching as it gets windier. Good when too tight for an assym, but need more power than jib.

 

For your situation, a frac assym would be my call. Pretty easy to handle without a furler, as front tramps give so much working area.

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Thanks for the input guys.  Clipper, I'm thinking furler because I single-hand a lot.

 

One other factor here.  My boat is a Wildfire 8.5 with an extra meter of beam versus the GBE.  I am concerned that might preclude running the sheets outside the shrouds on a reach with Code Zero, and maybe even a smaller assym.

 

I've got the local sailmaker joining me on Terrapin this Sunday, but as with most US sailmakers, he has little multi experience.  His is a Quantum shop.   He has already told me that he would be consulting the guys at Quantum in Australia when it comes time to order something.   Further, he's an excellent J/70 sailor, which may color his recommendations.  

 

I'll update here with any good info we discover.

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I'll get Vorpal Blade onto this for you, sail-maker with lot's of 8.5 experience.

He'll have some ideas i'm sure.

But I agree with Clipper etc, fractional assym. gennaker.

We have a furler on our screecher & it does cause a bit of grief sometimes, the bottom end can twist up.

We have a sock on the gennaker which is great for short handed sailing, and never gives any trouble, but it's on a 45' cat, not sure if they are relevant on an 8.5 sized boat?

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For an 8.5 my first choice would be a fractional gennaker and if you do a lot of single handed sailing maybe fit this with a top down furler, TC uses this option a lot on Pulse and has been doing so for years.

Not to side track the thread but Im going to get rid of the gennaker/sock combo on VB and go for a Code 0 furler as it can be "turned off" from in the cockpit whereas the with sock someone needs to be at the mast and manage the haul down line, while everyone else sorts the tack line, halyard, sheets etc, etc. 

Anyone wanting a big gennaker and sock luff length is 16.5m, foot about 8m??

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Agreed a large flat gennaker is best down wind and reach in the light no need for a furler.  Had a furler cluster f on the screecher (code 0) in yesterdays race which wasn't much fun. Furling a sail is more complicated than it looks.

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Freedom - what brand of furler, and what happened?  I've heard that some of those type of furler are still having issues.

 

I do still want a furler with all the singlehanding/shorthanded sailing we do.

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Bad kitty's one is a Harken, works great sometimes then gets a twist sometimes when we go to unfurl the screecher, wraps the furling line round the sail & its a huge drama.

May be the luff line causing the problem, or could well be pilot error also!

But mostly its good,

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Code Zero/Screacher is a fun performance sail, but really has a pretty narrow band of useful sailing, because it is not that big, and typically heavier fabric to cope with the loads. Anything you can do with a Screacher cruising you can do slightly slower with a main and jib. 

But going downwind you need area. A positive luff gennaker that still roller furls I think is a very versatile sail. I use mine single handed and racing. I made this sail in 2005, when not a lot of sail makers were building this type of sail. It's practically worn out from over use. Not as big as a full race gennaker, but far more versatile and user friendly.

I'll be making a new one soon. Lots of ideas on making it better

Pulse211114.jpg

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Clew height will be dropped on the next sail. But good for visibility cruising,

 

TC Design brand (as in made it myself) carbon furler. This is Mark 3.

 

The next one will have a swivelling tack. But it won't be a top down furler. There's some experimenting to go on with the next sail that's still top secret. I'll let you know how it goes once it's in action...

TC10furler.jpg

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Hi Gang - I was reviewing this thread as a new headsail gets closer to the ordering stage.

 

My new furler just arrived - should have it shortly.   Got a killer deal on this Facnor 1500X + :   http://www.facnor.com/uk/products/gennaker__code_0_furlers/continuous_line/fichiers/fiche_fx_carb_u.pdf

 

27_1_104.jpg?34116,34

 

I have a quote on a sail for it that uses parallel luff ropes to drive the furling.   I also have the option of getting anti-torque rope sewn in.   The sail is pretty much a code zero, and after re-reading your comments, I'm once again leaning toward something a bit more gennaker-ish.   Tough to figure and I only have funds for one new sail.

 

Id I do stay with a code zero type, any comments on the two luff types?

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