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Cruising and NZ Super


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I wonder why it says "apply to receive your super overseas"?. Pay it into my NZ bank account thanks, I'll organize access to it to suit me.

 

Exactly! You're not applying to receive your super overseas, therefore no reason to tell them anything. You'll organise the overseas transfers yourself, not them.

 

Its probably a 10 year old policy (pre internet banking) that enables WINS to transfer $$ to an overseas bank account. These days you can do it anywhere with an internet connection.

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i am still missing something here.  What would give the government cause to all of a sudden check if Mr and Mrs Pensioner are physically living at the address domiciled on their records on a suspicion (why would they suspect anyway?) that you are out of the country for too long.

 

The only way to do it would be for them to physically come knocking on your door.  I'd be massively surprised if they are monitoring data of pensioners passports at various ports and borders and sending that off to some government office that has been set up to try figure out which oldies have spent too long out of the country. In fact they have let crims out of the country using their legal passport let alone them monitoring the comings and goings of the over 65's!

 

As someone said, super is not a benefit, It is a right.

 

All I would do is have someone monitor my snail mail, other than that I just do not believe you have a thing to worry about.

If you tell them about your upcoming proposed offshore travel, they will just feel the need to invent something restrictive. What they dont know wont hurt 'em.

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Exactly! You're not applying to receive your super overseas, therefore no reason to tell them anything. You'll organise the overseas transfers yourself, not them.

 

Its probably a 10 year old policy (pre internet banking) that enables WINS to transfer $$ to an overseas bank account. These days you can do it anywhere with an internet connection.

 

Exactly. Anyone that asks for their super to be put into an offshore account direct is just asking for trouble.

Let it keep going into your NZ account, and due to internet banking you can access your money with a click of a mouse anywhere in the world. End of story.

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Today the government announced $857 million dollars to fund a new computer at IRD, bringing the total new computer budget to something like $1.4 billion.

The fact of the matter is there current computer still works fine, it's just that technology has come along so far that IRD and the government now want a computer that is really good at siphoning data out of just about every source you can think of, and matching it.

 

And now they are building it.

 

And how do the government get a return on this $857 million (or $1.4 bil)?

 

By tracking down old guys who've gone sailing and donging them for whatever they can...

If you are not supposed to do it, should have declared it, or thought you wouldn't get caught, the state will very soon have the machine to catch you.

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Fish, Grant, you guys are really that paranoid?

I know the Govts GCSB shennanigans was as dodgy as a car salesman and the govt is a snoopdog piece of sh*t, but really - you really think they would give enough of an eff to go through data bases with their 'super duper billion dollar computer' (hey that rhymes) to check on oldies that might be spending too long overseas enjoying their golden years?

If that is the case this country is really turning to the brown stuff.,

 

Actually, what they should be doing is using this super computer to track down and whack a tax bill on all those companies that pay little or no tax by. what everyone knows, is nothing short of money laundering.

 

An APPLE anyone, or a GOOGLE search at your service? Or how about a PANAMA PAPER to read with your morning cuppa Sir?

 

If they wasted time and money trying to catch out pensioners it would just add to why I have little respect for this government and most of those that preceded it when the real crooks get off scot free,

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And yes I know the Panama papers was about foreigners using NZ as a tax dodging loophole, and not by NZ'ers themselves to tax dodge, but it still wasn't a good look.

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The point is that they would do it only if it's easy - these people don't do difficult. As KM notes Data base searches are dead easy. When they find you've out too long they don't even have to look for you. They'd stop paying and you'll come running!

 

I think chasing a lot of overseas corporate tax is not that easy. If you look at your transactions you'll find the service or product or transaction is processed in other jurisdictions - ie Spotify is processed in Ireland and the service is developed in Scandinavia somewhere so it seems to me technically it is the user that's importing it. No different to my wife buying on line from M&S out of the UK (though the bastard's have just changed that so they can charge kiwi residents more than in the UK).

 

The draconian way to solve it then is to surcharge any overseas transaction through the banks which will go down like a cup of cold sick with the voters and not hit the evil overseas corporations, that we feed, the way the voters want.

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I looked  into this last year, if you choose to live out of NZ and not have to come back I think once every 26 weeks your super can be paid to you wherever , however there is a catch , you are entitled to 100 % of your super if you lived in NZ all the time between ages 20 and 65, if you were away living elsewhere for eg 10% of that time then you will get only 90% of your super if you choose to no longer reside in NZ, so depending on your history it may or may not be worth a trip home twice a year. In some ways in NZ we are lucky,  in Aussie super is means tested and many of us including I would suspect BP would be affected as the theshold starts around 250k and if you have around 1,2 million in assets { they include everything you own other than a modest family home] you will get nothing at all.

]

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I looked  into this last year, if you choose to live out of NZ and not have to come back I think once every 26 weeks your super can be paid to you wherever , however there is a catch , you are entitled to 100 % of your super if you lived in NZ all the time between ages 20 and 65, if you were away living elsewhere for eg 10% of that time then you will get only 90% of your super if you choose to no longer reside in NZ, so depending on your history it may or may not be worth a trip home twice a year. In some ways in NZ we are lucky,  in Aussie super is means tested and many of us including I would suspect BP would be affected as the theshold starts around 250k and if you have around 1,2 million in assets { they include everything you own other than a modest family home] you will get nothing at all.

]

 

So, apart from the few that may have lived out of NZ for a reasonably lengthy period of their lives between 20 and 65, then there is no issue for the vast majority, and no having to step foot back in the country every 26 weeks.

Kind of means issue over.

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I looked  into this last year, if you choose to live out of NZ and not have to come back I think once every 26 weeks your super can be paid to you wherever , however there is a catch , you are entitled to 100 % of your super if you lived in NZ all the time between ages 20 and 65, if you were away living elsewhere for eg 10% of that time then you will get only 90% of your super if you choose to no longer reside in NZ, so depending on your history it may or may not be worth a trip home twice a year. In some ways in NZ we are lucky,  in Aussie super is means tested and many of us including I would suspect BP would be affected as the theshold starts around 250k and if you have around 1,2 million in assets { they include everything you own other than a modest family home] you will get nothing at all.

]

 

 

That's my understanding of it, too.

 

I will never get 100% NZ super, I've spent 25% of my working life in Switzerland. But I might get 75% NZ super. However, having paid into the Swiss system for 25% of my working life, I'm apparently eligible for 25% of the basic Swiss govt pension.

 

So that should take care of the rates...

 

But I am interested overall in the living on a NZ vessel "does it count as living in NZ" thing. Perhaps it comes down to when you're in international waters? Because when you're on a NZ vessel inside another territory, it's the laws of the territory you're visiting that you must obey.

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I suspect the prosecution or reclaiming of money received from an estate referred to earlier relates to  benefit other than NZS.

On an invalids benefit or DPB etc one has to declare any other income which is then pro rata taken off the benefit. The catch is income is defined by statute as any money  or other benefit received. This was meant to cover such things as subsidised housing. It also was meant to limit the benefit income to cases where there was little or no other income, that is not just salary or wages but say investment income.

An anomaly arises in say making a bank withdrawal one receives money but it is just a transfer from previous savings so nothing is received. If one sells shares one receives money so presumably that counts. A further anomaly is that if one receives a private pension that is income whereas in fact it is a drawing on funds from previous savings and the income on those belongs to the group providing the pension in exchange for so doing. Alternatively if one had taken a lump sum then the income from that but not capital gains would be counted as income and taxable for the recipient and deductible from a benefit. Whereas otherwise it would be taxable for the pension body and the capital would be owned by them in exchange for the obligation to pay the pension. However it ranks as "monies received".

These are not however deductible from universal superannuation which is universal. That is handled differently in that it is taxable and counts as part of taxable income.

The residency thing used to be that super was payable for only six months overseas whether or not a NZ ship is overseas or not becomes irrelevant although one is still a resident for tax purposes. However this was amended to allow for Pacific Islanders in particular to return to the islands and still claim their super.

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Don't you believe it. They're prosecuting a supernnuatant friend of mine for not declaring he was receiving money from his mums estate, about $10k a year. Because He doesn't have the money to fight it They'll be cutting his super until it is paid back.

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He was on a sickness benefit at the time. My comment was made in response to the point that was made that "they" wouldn't prosecute a superanuitant.

 

And it was complicated for him, (I.e is money from your moms will really income?). The significance is that he is a superanuitant now and they are deducting it from his super.

 

In answer to your question: there is no means testing of superannuation so you can earn $1m and still get it (plenty do). If you're old enough - you're eligible subject to the residency issues discussed on this thread.

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After two trips back to NZ , an going to appeal I have some knowledge on this subject, I should add I am now in receipt of the NZ super and have been for some time.

This super entitlement, is administered work an income via their international division , the local staff at Christchurch did not have any knowledge of the " portability pension" as it is called.

The International division are not ( or so it would appear to me an my case) keen to give this pension out, and will make life difficult.

The key points are

1. Be a NZ resident

2. Be in receipt of the NZ superannuation pension, before application for the portability pension.

 

What is not widely known is the very recent Supreme Court decision regarding what is a residence an ordinary residence test ( this is a Supreme Court decision made in 2016 "Greenfield ")

I would suggest any one applying read this case law ( found on the web) an make sure that they meet the requirements, it also pays to just bring this judgement to the international division of work an incomes notice.

 

A interesting further point which I am about to address is the fact that Work an income will deduct time spent on your yacht overseas off your pension , as time out of NZ, in saying this they do not take time off for being out of NZ if you are on a NZ ship, under the old system all registered NZ yachts were registrared under the ships registrar , thus meeting the Work an Incomes own criteria, this is my next discussion with them.

 

In conclusion, my dealings with Work an Income has been very unpleasant, I was lied to mislead, deliberately had my pension withheld, have had to deal with staff who called be discribed as vacant , child like ( in their decision making), rude.

After engaging a solicitor an having him involved things became a lot easier.

 

I am happy to assist any one with information .

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Great 1st Post Rahope, Welcome to Crew.org.nz.! In view of the usefulness of this post, we'll skip the normal 5 moderated posts before the promotion to full member. I'll promote you now..

Cheers

Matt

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