Battleship 100 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 Of course it is entirely possible the unfortunate swimmer was deceased when struck by the vessel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Sad to see POAL dragged out the suffering of the family by not fessing up till the day before the trial. Now, how much of a sh*t fight is there going to be about POAL's systematic and sustained breaches of basic rules? Ports of Auckland Limited and one of its skippers have been fined after a pilot boat accidentally fatally hit ocean swimmer Leslie Gelberger. Judge Kevin Phillips fined the company $424,000 and skipper Grant More $8400 for failing to comply with their health and safety duties and exposing an individual to a risk of death or serious injury. Gelberger died in April 2017 after being struck by the boat while swimming in the Waitemata Harbour. “This case took so long to resolve because the defendants didn’t accept until the day before trial the Wakatere [pilot boat] killed Mr Gelberger," Lowery said. He told the court Ports of Auckland’s boats breached the speed limits on 99 per cent of their journeys. Judge Phillips said the “systemic speed” breaches called for a “pretty strong denunciation and deterrence”. “Restrictions are there for a reason.” Simon Lance, acting on behalf of More, said his breaches occurred in an organisation where excessive speed was the norm and his conduct mirrored that norm on the day Gelberger died. https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/122227334/ports-of-auckland-fined-424k-after-death-of-ocean-swimmer-leslie-gelberger 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fogg 427 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 I know for a fact that the POA pilot boats exceed the speed limit. I haven’t gone public with this before but due to a unique error in the AIS system commissioned by POA last year I have been receiving excess speed alerts to my boat that were meant for other boats, namely the pilot boats. Think of it as someone sending a text message but it goes to a different number due to a bug. So I was seeing speed limits alarms going off every hour of day meant for pilot boats which were sent to my MMSI in error. i could predict when it would happen - if I saw a ship approaching Auckland I knew a pilot boat would soon depart and sure enough a few mins later I’d get the excess speed limit warning. When I complained I was asked to switch off my AIS alerts - which I did to save my own sanity as on a busy day the alarms were going off every few minutes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ex Elly 197 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Wow! So just an accident, not manslaughter? "The company has already paid $220,000 to Gelberger’s family, Judge Phillips said." "It struck Gelberger about 10.50am on April 20, 2017 while travelling at about 35 knots." "There was no speed limit in that area, 273 metres from the shore at the south end of Cheltenham Beach." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ex Elly 197 Posted July 24, 2020 Share Posted July 24, 2020 Ports of Auckland said that immediately after the accident, it "took action to change the route taken by pilot boats to mitigate the possibility of a similar accident happening in future". The company also said it "addressed the issues that led to boats speeding in restricted areas, which arose because of misinterpretation around the rules which grant pilot boats an exemption to the speed limits". https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12350521 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Priscilla II 392 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 On 24/07/2020 at 3:04 PM, ex Elly said: Wow! So just an accident, not manslaughter? "The company has already paid $220,000 to Gelberger’s family, Judge Phillips said." "It struck Gelberger about 10.50am on April 20, 2017 while travelling at about 35 knots." "There was no speed limit in that area, 273 metres from the shore at the south end of Cheltenham Beach." Would be great to see the grieving family receive the fine imposed on Ports of Auckland. POAL owned by the people but a grubby incident fuelled by corporate denials and evasions that inevitably prolonged the victims family grief and search for justice. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytom 642 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 Can someone explain why poal need 30knt capable vessels,when the old Waitimata/akarana did the same job and lesser speeds.Ships arent going faster,poal know arrival times.So if expecting 2 ships around same time take 2 pilots out.Maybe they need too either A) follow main shipping channel or B )observe safe speeds. Bit like waiheke ferries,yes maintain or suppose to maintain 12knts?? from terminal to bean rock then can exceed but must display all round flashing orange light.Then must use ferry channel from Emu rock to Waiheke. Now my question is,seeing how there is no defined ferry channel from bean rock to Emu rock.Does the ferry have to give way/slow down etc for other users. My understanding is you cannot impede a ferry on a timetable run or vessel over 500t,but for this requierement to met,should their tracks not be marked on a chart. So we cannot impede them or if ferry chose a different course they should loose alrights? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marinheiro 352 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 30 minutes ago, harrytom said: Can someone explain why poal need 30knt capable vessels,when the old Waitimata/akarana did the same job and lesser speeds.Ships arent going faster,poal know arrival times.So if expecting 2 ships around same time take 2 pilots out.Maybe they need too either A) follow main shipping channel or B )observe safe speeds. Bit like waiheke ferries,yes maintain or suppose to maintain 12knts?? from terminal to bean rock then can exceed but must display all round flashing orange light.Then must use ferry channel from Emu rock to Waiheke. Now my question is,seeing how there is no defined ferry channel from bean rock to Emu rock.Does the ferry have to give way/slow down etc for other users. My understanding is you cannot impede a ferry on a timetable run or vessel over 500t,but for this requierement to met,should their tracks not be marked on a chart. So we cannot impede them or if ferry chose a different course they should loose alrights? I believe the ferries have an exemption from the harbour master to open up once they pass the Fergusson container wharf whilst staying within a defined "traffic lane" to Bean Rock. The Pine Harbour ferry often takes the passage inside the Baen Rock/Kohi reefs Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 360 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 The 12kt area is marked in pink (or what ever you call that colour) That’s why the ferry’s dip over towards Orakei as soon as the pass the container wharf so they can open up. The Waiheke ferry’s are over 500ts and operating with in harbour limits so you are required to keep clear at all times, they do tend to try to avoid you but that’s curtesy on their part The only ones that aren’t as above are the Pine Harbour and Car ferry’s once they pass a line between Musick Pt and Park Pt heading east 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Priscilla II 392 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 Has the AC36 an exemption for adherence to the inner harbour speed restrictions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Priscilla II 392 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 1 minute ago, splat said: the diagram upthread appears to only restrict power driven vessels to max of 12 knots not sailing...although not sure how the cha se boats get round this one Those gas guzzling tenders and the accompanying spy craft are regularly carving up the inner harbour at excessive speeds. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
splat 55 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 The AT diagram Jon posted only restricts power driven vessels to 12 knots although not sure how this doesn't apply to chase boats Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 360 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 I have in the past been given exemption from the 12kt rule by the harbour master for a safety/support boat as long as it has a flag or distinguishing markings, still need to follow all other rules however Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin McCready 83 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 I've asked before here but haven't had a response. Why do Auckland ferries seem to create such massive rooster tails? Surely the captains know their boat parameters (hull and planing speeds) and know that applying more gas is just a waste of fuel? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ex Elly 197 Posted July 26, 2020 Share Posted July 26, 2020 2 hours ago, Jon said: The Waiheke ferry’s are over 500ts and operating with in harbour limits so you are required to keep clear at all times, they do tend to try to avoid you but that’s curtesy on their part This is not what I was taught on the Coastguard Boatmaster course. They told us that the Waiheke passenger ferries were under 500 tons, so we don't need to give way to them. Only ferries we need to give way to are Great Barrier and Waiheke car ferries. Maybe that has changed in the last 15 years though with bigger passenger ferries being puchased? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dagwood 57 Posted July 26, 2020 Share Posted July 26, 2020 15 hours ago, Knot Me... maybe said: Jon is right. Give way to ferries on scheduled routes, size is not relevant. Interesting, I heard the opposite from an ex ferry master - he found it frustrating that stand on vessels didn't hold their course and speed and gave way when they shouldn't. Made situations harder to anticipate and manage. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 360 Posted July 26, 2020 Share Posted July 26, 2020 I was taught they have right of way if the yellow lights flashing as above, as for the 500t rule if they are a lot bigger than me I use the might is right rule. I did some digging yesterday and couldn’t find it however, Auckland seems to be the only place where the ferry’s give way. I’ve sail half the world near enough and everywhere else you would either get chewed a new arsehole over the vhf or a fine and this including other harbours in nz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dagwood 57 Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 Tend to do the same - keep well away and make intentions as clear as possible.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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