Black Panther 1,586 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Do you honestly think a license would have made one whit of difference in this instance? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John B 106 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Not one little bit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 fish, what's your predicted timeframe on compulsory skipper licences? I may be willing to take your bet, even though I support compulsory licences, one of which I have for another jurisdiction. Too hard to predict a timeframe. Like anything in Local Govt / Bureaucracy it will be death by 1,000 cuts, a little bit of bylaw here, a bit of volunteery licencing here, bit of LJ inforcement, probably change the rules around drinking on boats. I didn't realise registration is compulsory for jetski's already. (not saying that is a bad thing, just that it is already happening). There will no doubt be a link to more official requirements to biosecurity management, quiet possibly around fees and funding. Do you honestly think a license would have made one whit of difference in this instance? Can't comment, don't know the circumstances, but I don't think that is relevant to the question. The Police search controller has a bee in his bonnet. There are very few things officials can do preceding incidence like this. Things they may consider are compulsory boat registration, compulsory (or more stringent) safety requirements (noted the thing was in charter and subject to 'Safe Ships' or whatever bollocks it is called) and then compulsory licencing of the skipper. We have compulsory drivers licencing (just not for the highest risk category of drivers, tourists), but still 100's die on our roads every year. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zozza 293 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Do mountaineers need a license? Do people that go for a bushwalk need a license? Do people that go to beach for a swim need a license? All these three activities have had fatal consequences for punters multiple times. Why are boaters / sailors seemingly singled out that we should be licensed? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
waikiore 399 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Do rugby players wear helmets Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Romany 162 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Do mountaineers need a license? Do people that go for a bushwalk need a license? Do people that go to beach for a swim need a license? All these three activities have had fatal consequences for punters multiple times. Why are boaters / sailors seemingly singled out that we should be licensed? because we are perceived as 'rich'. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Do mountaineers need a license? Do people that go for a bushwalk need a license? Do people that go to beach for a swim need a license? All these three activities have had fatal consequences for punters multiple times. Why are boaters / sailors seemingly singled out that we should be licensed? Generally mountaineers, bush walkers and beach swimmers are more than happy to be rescued once they've declared they need to be rescued, and rescuers reach them, and tend to only need rescuing once. (as opposed to getting a paramedic swimmer on board then not wanting to be rescued) Additionally, each of those three examples generally can't self-rescue once they've declared they need rescuing, where as, and I think specifically in this case, the crew could have self rescued, in the eyes of the Police Controller, if they'd stayed in the lee of the Poor Knights (rightly or wrongly). And its not about the fatal consequences, it is about the cost of multiple attempted rescue, and the risk placed on rescuers. Getting a paramedic swimmer onboard and then not being rescued is a very very big deal, having declared an emergency, and then still needing rescuing later by the same helicopter / swimmer. Don't get me wrong, I don't support licencing, I'm just putting it out there that the circumstances of this situation will possibly be used to justify licencing... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin McCready 83 Posted March 20, 2018 Author Share Posted March 20, 2018 fish. You've withdrawn your offer of a bet. Ah well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Beccara 25 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Cant help but feel the same, Something about this whole thing is very off and it's burned a lot of manhours. I struggle to think of an incident quite like this in recent memory 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 fish. You've withdrawn your offer of a bet. Ah well. Sorry Kevin, I'll bet you a good bottle of singe malt whisky, that within 2 years, there will be concerted moves to introduce compulsory skipper licencing, and that this incident will be used as an example as to why it is required. By concerted moves I mean a formal proposal for compulsory licencing, or a 'consultation process', or 'formal discussions' of compulsory licencing by either politicians or senior bureaucrats from either local govt, central govt, or govt departments. Unrelated to the bet, I predict there will be calls within the media for 'more to be done' around licencing or other controls of recreational yacht skippers based on this incident, within the next 3 months (probably one month). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ScottiE 174 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 people said similar things at the time of the Sea Gypsey accident Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 people said similar things at the time of the Sea Gypsey accident What was that? Do you mean when the classic yacht Gypsy got tee boned and sunk? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin McCready 83 Posted March 20, 2018 Author Share Posted March 20, 2018 fish, I'm almost ready to take your bet. But first you have to say WHO will use this incident as an example. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 fish, I'm almost ready to take your bet. But first you have to say WHO will use this incident as an example. An individual or organisation wanting to advance compulsory licencing of recreational boating skippers. Who do you think will use this incident as an example? I'm thinking it will be around increasing regulatory control (compliance with 'accepted good practices', i.e. ensuring minimum standards are met) or as a new revenue stream, either through licencing fees, training for licencing, or infringement notices around non-compliance. Was it Marlborough HM that was trialing how much money they could make by enforcing speed restrictions this summer? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kevin McCready 83 Posted March 21, 2018 Author Share Posted March 21, 2018 Fish. Lol. I won't take up the bet on the basis of "individual". You could easily stack that one. I'm happy to take it up on the basis of registered organisation (company or charity). Deal? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Fish. Lol. I won't take up the bet on the basis of "individual". You could easily stack that one. I'm happy to take it up on the basis of registered organisation (company or charity). Deal? Sounds like you may have some prior knowledge or insider trading going on here. Just to clarify, I'm saying this will happen, are you saying it wont happen? I would also want to include govt department / govt ministry and local govt officers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
armchairadmiral 411 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Just look at Oz. Compulsory boat / skipper licensing is coming,especially with this mob who want to control everything. My bet is through Coastguard. . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
harrytom 642 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 We have registration for jetskis,why?? it is only time before we will all need a licence/registration. Act leader David Seymour called us all rich pricks in a public meeting about 2yrs ago, This incident will no doubt be followed up by MNZ and depending on their findings I will would give 5yrs before something is introduced,look at restrictions in place now,cannot take a dump in a bay without a holding tank and that is only the start,give it 5yrs you wont be able to discharge it,it will have to be pumped ashore. Look at NRC and Marlborough with their hull clean restriction,wont belong before it is enforced through out NZ. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fish 0 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 look at restrictions in place now,cannot take a dump in a bay without a holding tank and that is only the start,give it 5yrs you wont be able to discharge it,it will have to be pumped ashore. Funny, if you actually choose to not take a dump in said bay where I was going for a nice swim, we probably wouldn't need the damn rules around not dumping in bays. A little bit of curtesy and responsibility would go a long way to avoid the need for rules, licencing and regulation. I think the reason jet skis now have compulsory registration is the high number of complete fuckwits that drive them with no respect or courtesy for other water users. (not all jet ski users, I have seen some really considerate users, many more than the wankers recently, since registration was introduced) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Priscilla II 392 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 You can cure ugly but you can't cure dumb. Fizz boat nasty behavior may well respond positively regarding registration so I am keen to to see it introduced. Now as for the complete twerp in the aircraft carrier sized sailing cat that I encountered on the wrong side of the fairway a week ago at Westhaven no amount of rules are ever going to alter his thinking or lack of. I am sticking to my aim straight for the bastards manoeuver which up until now has proved to be very effective. "look at restrictions in place now,cannot take a dump in a bay without a holding tank and that is only the start,give it 5yrs you wont be able to discharge it,it will have to be pumped ashore." Actually the rules in this case work to everybody's advantage and wtf should I or my whanau be swimming in the remnants of your lasts nites dinner. Pump out facilities will come quicker driven by less boaties complying with the simple holding tank requirements as they stand. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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